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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Should Paternity testing be mandatory?

157 replies

mholz · 17/06/2018 01:00

Considering its Father's day, to cut stress on social welfare; should paternity testing be made mandatory to encourage fairness on Child support payments and to call out deadbeat dads.

OP posts:
PrincessCuntsuelaVaginaHammock · 21/06/2018 14:45

Indeed! Some interesting points though.

But I always wonder why people who think of themselves as pro men's rights often like this, because it has the potential to coerce a lot of men into handing over DNA to government databases. After all, it would have to be mandatory and probably comprehensive if you wanted it to work, and I dont think anyone seriously believes there's no possibility it could be kept and misused.

If I know a bloke has privacy concerns about DNA samples but I just don't like him much, I can say he's one of the potential candidates for father of my child, and oblige him to hand it over. I could have loads of fun with that, if I were a complete dick.

SardineReturns · 21/06/2018 15:14

Actually that is a good point.

A database containing the DNA of most of the men in the UK would be great for prosecuting rape cases & also in cases of getting underage girls pregnant, incest etc.

It would make things a bit "nowhere to hide".

So maybe if we can combine the compulsory DNA stuff around children, with compulsory DNA for all men and boys in the UK and a commitment that it be used whenever a sex crime with DNA evidence is reported, and prosections to the max of the law, I might be able to get on board.

Smile
CheshireChat · 21/06/2018 16:55

SardineReturns Whilst it would definitely be invaluable in some cases, otherwise it will just prove they had sex, not rape unfortunately and we'd be in the same situation.

SoddingUnicorns · 21/06/2018 17:02

And a criminal offence to neglect your children by not paying CS? Because that's much more common and hurts far more children

I’ve been saying this for years. All very well an NRP pleading poverty or dodging paying, but it’s not like the RP can just tell the bairns “oh you’ll get your tea a week on Tuesday, I’m skint.”

SardineReturns · 21/06/2018 17:04

Huh?

Obviously not all sex is rape Confused

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

Certainly in the case of women and girls who report rape, underage girls who are pregnant, and incest, a crime has been committed....

My wording "whenever a sex crime with DNA evidence is reported" is fairly clear?

I wasn't suggesting that the police should prosecute all men who have had sex, that seems a bit of an odd leap!

IrmaFayLear · 21/06/2018 17:07

In Italy your children from a first marriage (or relationship, I suppose) trump subsequently-sired children in terms of support and inheritance.

I think this should be the case here, along with DNA proof if required. It seems unreasonable and immoral that a man can father 100 children without a backward glance and no financial penalty.

SardineReturns · 21/06/2018 17:09

Or is the idea here that not only do women lie lie lie about the paternity of their babies, they also lie lie lie about rape...

So in MRA world

A small number of women lying about paternity is a far worse issue than a very large number of men failing to provide for their children (and leaving large numbers in poverty)
A small number of women and girls lying about rape is a far worse issue than a very large number of rapes and other sex crimes going unpunished

Answer:
Force all families to have testing when the man demands it but not when he doesn't
Definitely don't use the DNA for anything related to sex crimes as probably it won't make any difference and women lie yada yada

corythatwas · 21/06/2018 17:10

"If the guy refuses because he is blindsighted by love, he should be given the option further down the road , should he become suspicious"

Well, that will be nice for the child. "Sorry, James, as long as your dad was in love with your mum he was happy to believe you were his son, but now he isn't he doesn't see the point of being your dad any more, so could we just do a little scrape from the inside of your mouth."

What kind of a shit would let a child believe he was his dad and rely on him- and then just tell him he wasn't when it didn't suit him any longer?

SardineReturns · 21/06/2018 17:12

Miswording Smile

"Certainly in the case of women and girls who report rape, underage girls who are pregnant, and incest, a crime has been committed...."

Should probably be that in the case a women and girls who report rape, almost certainly a crime has been committed (false reports are low).

It has been found that rapists tend to have serial behaviours. This would stop a lot of very dangerous men.

So maybe, maybe I'm more on board. Interesting to see if the MRA who want "mandatory paternity testing" will wibble and back down at that suggestion...

KilledByHerOwnCardigan · 21/06/2018 17:12

No. YABU.

CheshireChat · 21/06/2018 17:17

SardineReturns definitely a misunderstanding, sorry I wasn't being clear.

I meant that even when rape is reported, the onus seems to be placed on the woman to prove she didn't consent, I'm not that hopeful that having definite proof intercourse occurred will also dramatically increase prosecution rates.

Absolutely invaluable for underage cases obviously, but I expect that's mostly how it already is right now- if they have a DNA sample (and they know who it is) and an underage victim you'd hope it would be pretty bloody straightforward.

SardineReturns · 21/06/2018 17:30

Ah there's this bit as well:

"a commitment that it be used whenever a sex crime with DNA evidence is reported, and prosections to the max of the law,"

So not just saying they'll use it, and then shoving it on a shelf and forgetting all about it (hello USA)

But changes to the attitude of the polcie etc as well.

Given that the head of the met recently said she isn't interested in investigating historical rape cases (ie pretty much all child abuse as it often isn't reported until the victim has grown up) or cases where the victim know the assailant, I don't see this happening any time soon.

Sadly it's an idea, nothing more. Same as this mandatory testing of all births in the UK (not so sad about that idea not happening, vast expense and for what exactly. Won't make a jot of difference to child poverty, not sure why anyone thinks it would).

SardineReturns · 21/06/2018 17:32

Underage cases are not generally prosecuted.

As long as the girl is around puberty or over, it's taken as consensual in our society, and I can't see that changing, even with all that happened in rotherham etc. There just isn't any interest in it.

Even when girls are under 13 (supposed to be "no excuses") you get "I thought she was older" and sympathy from the judge.

There's just no appetite for it.

PrincessCuntsuelaVaginaHammock · 21/06/2018 17:46

Where it would potentially be useful is cases where a woman's evidently been attacked but it was by a stranger.

I don't see the proposal in the OP happening any time soon, quite apart from anything else it would be fantastically expensive and save no money anywhere. This is even before we consider the legal costs when people sue for wrong results. Which will happen because humans make mistakes, and also because it would end up being outsourced to Crapita or similar for a bargain basement price.

But I do think it's interesting to reflect on the way in which some men are willing to place their distrust of women above their own privacy, and not even think about any implications that might disadvantage men as a group. Says a lot, doesn't it?

SardineReturns · 21/06/2018 18:11

Very much yes to your last para. there Princess.

Mummagump · 21/06/2018 18:12

Currently sitting with DH to my left and pre-school DD by sperm donor on my lap! Confused

MrsP1111 · 03/01/2022 18:29

100% of women know it is their child.
0% of men know.
If there is nothing to hide what would be the objection?
People who object the most in my experience have something to hide.

MrsP1111 · 03/01/2022 18:33

When a man has spent several years bonding with a child to find it isn't his I can guarantee you it would save money.
Less likely to suffer mental health issues loss of business etc.
Men are on NHS apps Facebook etc DNA to prove a child is theirs is fine if it gives certainty that is is theirs or proves it isn't

Mumdiva99 · 03/01/2022 18:36

@MrsP1111 this thread is a zombie thread....look at the date.

MrsP1111 · 03/01/2022 18:57

Sorry I don't know what you mean by a zombie thread? I know a lot of people who have been devastated by paternity fraud and the perpetrators get away scot free so feel strongly for them.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 03/01/2022 18:58

@4GreenApples

No.

Mandatory paternity testing works on the assumption that women are liars who can’t be trusted to be faithful in relationships or honest about who’s fathered their children.

It’s frankly insulting to the majority of women to suggest this.

This.
PurpleDaisies · 03/01/2022 19:01

This is an old thread.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 03/01/2022 22:12

I should have noticed that, @PurpleDaisies.

Mumdiva99 · 04/01/2022 07:04

@mrsp1111 a zombie is dead but walking around....a zombie thread is a dead conversation restarted. This is from 2018. Start a new thread to discuss your point.

MrsP1111 · 04/01/2022 09:46

Thanks for explaining