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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Morrisons refused to let DD pretend to pay for the shopping...

341 replies

AllTheseThingsThatIveDone · 15/06/2018 19:36

Because my shopping included a bottle of wine.

Often pop to my local Morrisons for small top up shops. Popped there this morning to buy a few bits, including a bottle of wine. DD aged 3 likes to 'help' me at the self service checkout, scanning the shopping, and then at the end I lift her up and she uses my debit card to make the contactless payment, or puts the coins in etc.

Today as I was about to lift DD up to pay, the lady overseeing the checkouts rushed over to stop me and said DD wasn't allowed to pay for the shopping. She said it wasn't allowed as then the alcohol could actually be for her, or the debit card could actually be hers. When I pointed out that DD is only 3, and the debit card was mine, and it was clearly me really paying for the shopping she said it didn't matter Hmm

AIBU or is this completely bonkers? I could totally understand this if I had an older teenager with me but it feels like there is no common sense anymore Confused

OP posts:
Charolais · 15/06/2018 22:58

The world has gone mad.

This just happened to me in a Safeway in the U.S.

I’m 65 and was with my 30 yr old son while he was buying beer for his father and uncle, along with some other things he needed. I wasn’t really with him, I just had a look around the store and then went to stand up front, near customer service.

The check-out girl must have seen me tell him I where I was going to be, or maybe it was just a nod I gave him, anyway she rudely bellows out across the store, “I need yours as well”! I didn’t even think she was talking to me and so she made it clear she was. She told me she needed to see my ID, I told her I was 65 and it was not even my shopping. She told me he might be buying it for me and then went on to brag she forced a 90 yr old man to show his ID the day before. Luckily I happened to have some ID to prove to her I was an adult person.

I’m in contact with the manager right now, he’s apologizing and wants a description of the check-out girl. All I remember was she was very obese and I’m not telling him that. I have told him his is not the only grocery store in town and I won’t be back in there because I don’t want to be humiliated by his staff again.

Miladamermalada · 15/06/2018 23:00

There is no harm in a 3 year old tapping it on a payment machine.There is.

Everything has to be a child's these days. They play on your phone, they pay with your card. There's no boundaries about 'no that's mummy's'. They are in on everything which fuels such a sense of entitlement. God help the parents who let their child have everything they own in the future.

Sunnymeg · 15/06/2018 23:01

The card transaction is only legally valid if it is made by the account holder. Letting anyone else use your contactless card breaches the terms and conditions of the account. You should not let your 3 year old anywhere near the card. If you had a a problem with the transaction and had to contact your bank, and you explained someone other than yourself had carried out the payment they would be perfectly within their rights to close your bank account.

MaisyPops · 15/06/2018 23:02

It depends.
Much as it's not the person on the till's fault, I did object to having to hope i had ID on me in order to buy plastic cutlery because someone wasn't sure what side of 25 i was. The law is 18. If you can't tell if I'm 18, ID me and I won't mind. That's your job and I get you have to be safe (and I'll take it graciously for an ego boost).
But if you can tell I'm evidently significantly over 18 just sell me the inoffensive item. Someone in the company has been a jobsworth deciding to be awkward insisting on ID for anyone who might vaguely look in the 25 region. The law isn't 25. It's 18.

Miladamermalada · 15/06/2018 23:03

^^
Finally a voice of reason and a clear explanation as to why the supermarket said no.
Stick to let them play with the car keys or the coins out of your purse next.

tenbob · 15/06/2018 23:04

nottinghill

It isn't though, is it

Because as others have pointed out, OP's card being used in her presence and with her consent makes her quite obviously the consumer in the transaction
And it is also obviously not a proxy sale

Only an idiot would try and argue this is a situation where the child is the consumer in the eyes of the law, and therefore breaking the law

I'm not doubting that some officious supermarket management have put the fear of god into their staff about Trading Standards and potential fines. But that doesn't mean it's correct or would actually ever happen

DieSchottin93 · 15/06/2018 23:04

@angryburd I agree with you. These rules sound totally daft but staff have no choice but to follow them to the letter. I got so many snotty customers get annoyed when I asked for ID or had to refuse a sale in any way. I was just following the rules.

I actually failed a company test purchase and had to get a 2 week suspension from age restricted sales (and in her description of me she put that I was 19 or younger - I'd just turned 23!!). If that had been a police test purchase or a Trading Standards one the outcome could have been much, much worse.

angryburd · 15/06/2018 23:05

And who do you think cops it if they sell you the item without seeing ID? Certainly not the "jobsworth" (urgh) who made the rule up.

DieSchottin93 · 15/06/2018 23:07

@MaisyPops but if store policy is Challenge 25 then that it what they must follow. I imagine it's 25 to cover their backs. When I failed a test purchase head office advised me to use a "Challenge 30" policy!Confused Can't imagine that would have gone down well...

HaudYerWheeshtBawbag · 15/06/2018 23:10

I agree with the shop, yes it’s the Britain 🇬🇧 gone mad, however that’s the world we live in, the cashier is facing an £80 (was the amount last time, Indine my alcohol licence) and upwards to £200,000 if licenced premises is caught serving under 18’s fine, as cashier is responsible for alcohol purchases! Fact of reality is that it’s your bank card however if your 3y old is holding that card then she is responsible for the alcohol purchase, unbelievably crazy but the world we live in!!!

Chocadoodledoo · 15/06/2018 23:14

@AppleKatie

  1. yes
  2. yes
MaisyPops · 15/06/2018 23:14

Oh I know die that's why I said it's not the person's fault on the till.
Someone further up is being a PITA in my opinion though.

If unsure on 18, fine. I also get challenge 21.

Clearly a grown adult, buying plastic knives and forks, dressed as a teacher, supermarket 10 mins from school with kids in it saying 'miss', staff badge, car on the forecourt - maybe just maybe they're evidently older than 18

I personally think challenge 25 is a bit of a jobsworth policy. But again, that's not the shop assistant's fault

AnotherRanger · 15/06/2018 23:29

I don't understand all the stories about adults being refused alcohol because of teenage DC. I've worked in sainsburys for 2 years and all the think 25 training we have says we can serve people who are with people who are underage as long as we have no reason to believe they are buying it for them ie if we overhear a conversation or see money exchanging hands.

DiegoMadonna · 15/06/2018 23:30

To be fair angryburd I don't think many people have laid the blame solely on the cashier. People are saying that there's a lack of common sense in this kind of situation, but that can be at all levels really.

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 15/06/2018 23:34

This thread is hysterical (both in the funny and dramatic sense)

The technicality stuff is making me LOL. Of course no one is going to prosecute a shop assistant selling alcohol in these circumstances. Have you all take leave of your sense or something?

lindalee3 · 15/06/2018 23:56

YABU ... they have to be so careful now. The employee did nothing wrong.

I always laugh when I see people on message forums claiming they - or someone they know - is in their mid 40's and they get asked for I.D. to buy alcohol. Never seen it happen in real life - ever.

No-over looks more than 10 years younger than they are. It makes no sense. If it DOES ever genuinely happen, the person asking must seriously need their eyes testing VERY badly!

hellokittymania · 16/06/2018 00:00

What the actual hell??? 😂😂😂😂

Please, spend your time making improvements to the shop, like getting staff who actually know how to help customers when they need it.

hellokittymania · 16/06/2018 00:02

OK, Linda let's test that. How old am I?

Morrisons refused to let DD pretend to pay for the shopping...
hellokittymania · 16/06/2018 00:07

Here is another, more recent photo, all the bills have been taken over the past few years. But nobody, can guess my age correctly. Even Vietnamese, and I spent a good deal of time in Vietnam.

Morrisons refused to let DD pretend to pay for the shopping...
nottinghillgrey · 16/06/2018 00:15

OP's card being used in her presence and with her consent makes her quite obviously the consumer in the transaction

No it does not. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Only an idiot would try and argue this is a situation where the child is the consumer in the eyes of the law, and therefore breaking the law

Im not trying to argue anything. It is the LAW.

You can't decide who the 'consumer' is. The law dictates you can't sell alcohol to under 18's. A 3yo is under 18.

ClaryFray · 16/06/2018 00:18

It isn't just the shop hit with a fine its that individual member of staff who will be fined and face prison so be a little more understanding

BestZebbie · 16/06/2018 00:33

If they are so worried about the illegality of the 3yr old purchasing alcohol, shouldn't they also be quite concerned about the illegality of the 3yr old fraudulently using someone else's debit card in their shop? It isn't as if toddlers get their own contactless cards.

alleypalley · 16/06/2018 00:34

Omg some people on here are just making shit up. £20k fine and a criminal record!! Don't talk nonsense, that's the kind of stuff employers use to scare their staff.

It is a £20k maximum fine for persistent offending (ie twice in 3 months). It is a £5k max fine. Which is still a lot I'll grant you, especially for a shop worker or bar staff. But how many people do you know who have ever been fined that. You would have to be taken to court for that kind of money, whereas most people caught, I would assume, would accept the PND on the spot fine.

I know of one person who got caught in a sting operation and they got a £70 personal fine and the licensee got pulled in before the licensing board and got a slap on the wrist.

And also if you ask someone their age, a test purchaser trying to catch you out (apart from special circumstances) has to tell you their real age, so if they send in a teenager and you ask their age they have to tell the truth.

Plus with all the training, and being able to prove that you operate a challenge 21/25 policy and prove that you regularly refuse sales to those with no ID, you can demonstrate due diligence anyway.

Enko · 16/06/2018 00:39

I foget who but to the person who asked who would fine... The government this is the rules

Selling to children
Selling alcohol to anyone under the age of 18 is illegal in England and Wales.

However, it is not an offence to buy or supply alcohol for a person under 18 where:

the person doing so is 18 or over

the recipient is 16 or 17

the alcohol is beer, cider or wine

the 16 or 17 year old is accompanied by an adult

the purchase is for drinking with a meal on licensed premises

The maximum fine for selling or supplying alcohol to children is £5,000. Personal licences can be suspended or forfeited on a first offence. The fine increases to £20,000 for persistently selling alcohol to children. This is the sale twice in three months from the same premises. Alternatively, the premises may be prevented from selling alcohol for a period of 48 hours to 2 weeks.

I work in a supermarket and one of the regular pieces of training we have to do is about what we can and cannot sell. it is a on the spot £90 fine if we permit someone underage to buy a restricted product.. and it can follow on to disciplinary and loss of job. The shop can loose its alcohol licence.. TO you it might be cute. For those of us who are standing there by the til it is ensuring we keep our job. We simply do not know if you are a mystery shopper. or if the person next to you is.

When I take my 18 and 16 year old with me if we are buying alcohol I get them to wait outside as I pay simply to ensure it is not a issue. I often buy beer I do not drink beer they both enjoy it though here and there so we have it in the house for them to have. Legally I can do that. However I cant legally purchase it in the shop with them there. I respect that rule and ensure the shopping assistants do not get into issues because of my wishes to shop.

TuTru · 16/06/2018 00:44

It is the law xx

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