To think solicitors are f***** unprofessional and no other professions would get away with it

[Indigo93]

A chance to rant. Please tell me I am not being unreasonable to feel utterly pissed off and beyond exhausted over this???

After 5 months of attempting to buying home with no chain at either end, we have been "apparently" ready to change contracts since last Thursday but surprise surprise it hasn't happened. So far I have been the one to chase the seller, the agent, the lender and other parties to send stuff back as our solicitor prefers to sit on their bum and wait for days for snail mail. We needed to exchange today in order to not be homeless for a few days due to complications with renting. Today was finally to be the day but guess what?? The vendor's solicitor is "working from home" and has not responded to emails or phone calls all day!!!!! Her team have apparently said they can't do any more. The e. agent can't reach her either.

WT ACTUAL F??!!

How is this professional?!?!?!

How do they continually get away with slow and non-responsive practice!!!

Rant over

@obvious we are required to obtain hard copies of the Transfer Deed yes. These are sent to the Land Registry on completion in order to register the new owners as the registered proprietors and they will not accept copies unless they are certified as true copies of the original by us (which we cannot do without the original ourselves)

Usually this is the only thing I ever request via post and I always send it out via email for the client to print and sign and then pop in the post back so they aren't waiting for me to send it out in the post first. Unless of course they have no printing facilities.

I'd never argue that there aren't any unprofessional solicitors about. Of course there are just like in all professions but honestly I don't know if speak for everyone but I've had to put up with some very nasty people who lash out when the law doesn't quite work the way they like.

Just yesterday I had an email telling me I was being 'fucking pedantic and stupid' from a client who's interests I was trying to protect. I've been called worse numerous times. Unprofessionalism can definitely work both ways and I've certainly experienced it more from clients than the other way around.

Don't get paid much??? Lol. Pmsl. Etc. Yanbu op. Never want to buy a house again after the last time. And it was a new build with no chain.

I completed on a day when it turned out our solicitor had been hospitalised (Happily he recovered). Because it was a grown-up firm with delegation policies, others could take over. Like everyone else has to do in the real world.

not a high-street dinosaur (had those on the other end, awful) and not a super cheap internet conveyancer either.

@baubletrouble no conveyancers don't get paid anywhere near the amount it seems people think they do. We don't charge by the hour. Conveyancing fees are set and if you compare them to the fees charged by an estate agent (who does very little indepth work in comparison) they are actually very reasonable, if you receive a good service.

It isn't like the TV programme 'Suits' where they are all making tens of thounsands a month. I work in conveyancing in a city centre and am on less than 25k.

I can't talk for other areas of law which do seem to charge higher rates.

Just like anything, you will be disappointed if you don't feel you get the service you pay for but that's why they have complaints procedures. If things go to plan and you get a decent solicitor conveyancing fees are extremely reasonable.

This is the seller's solicitor who is not contactable - not the OP's solicitor. She's very possibly been told to delay exchanging by her own client.

Or she's on a call, or in a meeting or doing any number of other things that she has to do in a day...

YANBU. The whole system is ridiculous - it's slow, unresponsive and why in god's name are they always on holiday?! I haven't had a single house sale where the solictor HASN'T been away during it at some point.

My last ones were told not to give out my hew address details to a violent ex-partner. They sent him paperwork with my address on it. I have absolutely no compunction in naming and shaming them - they are a practice called Atteys. I believe they have since closed down. The work was mostly being done by office juniors,, despite exorbitant charges.

-Not all solicitors are the same.

-Not all solicitors you will deal with in residential conveyancing even are solicitors. There are tons of licensed conveyancers, paralegals and legal executives doing this work.

-The work is very stressful not in terms of being complex but in terms of the volumes of work one person will have to deal with. They can't give individual clients much attention. It's also done often on a fixed fee basis, so you have like, 3 hours to spend on each file in total or there will be no profit for the firm, you miss your targets, get into shit etc etc.

-Yes I agree the service is often rubbish and sometimes negligent. I just wanted to set it in context of the background of what goes on in these firms.

Indigo93 YANBU. I've worked in a solicitors firm. The property department were pretty good actually.

But generally, many law firms are stuck in the past. Some haven't reached the 20th century, let alone the 21st!

IME the IT systems were severely lacking, partly because the senior staff were so used to relying on junior staff to do work that would be automated in other industries. And doing things the way they've always been done - just because that's that's the way it's done.

It's fairly normal for solicitors to rely on old-fashioned, laborious systems. It's an industry that's very male-heavy at the top, with all the donkey work done by women, pretty much. And the power in the hands of old men who've never had to do their own admin so have no idea just how important efficient systems are.

They did have a database of cases, so they probably thought they were being modern, but they also relied on card index files, paper print outs of everything, snail mail as default, massive duplication of data.

Working for a solicitors after working for commercial companies for years was like stepping back in time.

I used to work as an estate agent and had to chase various solicitors up on sales progression.

YANBU, some of them are utterly useless. I know buyers who would be chasing them as well as me chasing them, and there would be no progress, only to be told on a Thursday that they were completing the following day!

And deciding to "work from home" and not be available for enquiries is a joke. I'd be sacked if I did that.

It speaks volumes when a lot of estate agent companies have in house sales-chasing teams to push the solicitors to completion.

I have bought and sold several houses in the UK and was astonished at how the solicitors slowed things down (and in one case failed to notice during the purchase a major problem that then hindered our sale of the house).

Then I bought a house in the US - incredibly quick and easy.

The difference? No solicitors. Everything is handled by the realtor and the title company's closing agents.

Wow. I'm a conveyancer, not a 'third rate lawyer' either, a bloody well qualified, long-experienced solicitor who went into the profession years ago to help people and I'm proud that this still holds true today.

People talking about cut price conveyancing firms are generally correct, they are slow and often work in teams under one qualified person. They are very difficult for the local high street solicitor to deal with and contribute to delays in a chain.

But, I'm afraid that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. People do not value our service and think we should work for next to nothing. Some of these firms are cut price for a reason, they often (though not always) cut corners and do a shoddy job and/or have no real in depth knowledge of conveyancing which, you know, is kind of a must-have.

That is not to say either that high street firms charge a lot. We have to be fair and competitive, and frankly, a very large percentage of my work is through return clients and recommendations, and it is just nonsense to say that we are not accountable. Clients would just leave us in droves if we were crap or charged a fortune.

What they get when they instruct us is a very hands on service. I email immediately where I can, same with phone calls. If they want to come in and see me clients can do, and often they just come in without an appointment asking to see me, and I see them if I'm free. Where else can you do that these days?

You may say more fool me, but client care is my absolute top priority and it pisses me off no end to read all the ill-informed garbage on this thread.

We are one of the most highly regulated professions, and yes, of course there are villains in every walk of life, but the lazy stereotyping going on here is appalling.

Those of you complaining-take your complaints to our professional body if justifiable. All decent solicitors have an interest in weeding out the bad ones. And if you are just complaining without real justification, sit back down!

Yes Haribo, people don't stop to ask why the agents chase us do they? It couldn't be that it's nearing month-end and they are desperate for their commission and don't give a fig about the client could it?!!!!

@PeppermintPasty Haha sorry, I didn't get commission. And I had to chase all the time regardless of whether it was month end or not. And I did give a fig about the clients. Especially when I've got clients on the phone crying to me because they were told by solicitors that they would be exchanging and completing on a certain date, so they've booked removal vans and have got the people down the chain waiting to move into their house and I can't release their keys because I have to wait for the solicitors to call me and tell me its all gone through... and they've gone on a 2 hour lunch break..

I'm not saying all are like that. Some were a dream to work with. Others were horrendous. And if they were overworked to the point they could not keep on top of their existing work then they should have stopped taking on new clients.

Well, me too Emmasmum and I should have made that distinction. I work with some absolutely wonderful agents, those who really know their market, and their clients, and are an utter joy to deal with. The really good ones (two specific people in this town) make my life as a conveyancing solicitor much easier because of their professionalism. Credit where it's due.

...although I don't know any lawyers who go on two hour lunch breaks. One hour would be pushing it!

I used to work in residential conveyancing (I am a solicitor). It is a tough job. I would spend all day answering the phone and replying to emails from clients and estate agents. I couldn’t actually get any work done during office hours.
I would always call/ email when I said I would - that’s just common courtesy, but I must say some clients (and estate agents) were so rude I often didn’t want to speak to them.
A lot of work goes on behind the scenes - money laundering regulations, form filling required by compliance, ID from clients (always a challenge!), proof of funds, lenders’ requirements.... that is just at the start of a file.
Before exchange of contracts a report on title is prepared setting out the main points to note - 10+ pages. The number of clients who would ask me to “summarise” it as they couldn’t be bothered to read it!

Btw we would always require a wet signature for a transfer deed.

...although I don't know any lawyers who go on two hour lunch breaks. One hour would be pushing it! grin

Mine was pretty much permanently on the golf course.

Change solicitors Semster.

I appreciate that all solicitors are different, that "the labourer's worthy of his hire" and all the rest, but let's not pretend that anyone charging £300+ an hour is struggling - especially when so much of the work is done by staff earning a pittance

The first one I approached to sort an estate actually quoted £400 an hour, but worse still they wanted a 2% "responsibility fee" on top to reflect the "complexity" of the work for a case which they'd just declared to be very straightforward. Call me unreasonable, but for £400ph I'd expect them to shoulder the responsibility just fine

They offered to waive it of course (and would no doubt have invented a few more hours of work to compensate) but by that time I was already on my way out of the door

This is where misconceptions abound. My hourly rate, set by the local court, is £190 per hour.

I do not take that home in my pocket! I am an employee in an office environment with all the overheads for my boss that that entails.

And I am a fixed fee conveyancer, so my hourly rate doesn't come into it. If I were to charge an hourly rate, reflecting the many hours I actually spend on a single transaction, well, then your heads would explode!

An hourly rate is generally charged in other areas of law, such as litigation and so on.

For the expertise clients are getting, from me anyway, the bills are reasonable. Not cheap no, but reasonable.

If I make a mistake that costs a client, they can sue me/my firm, and I risk losing my practising certificate, which means bang goes my job.

Change solicitors Semster.

Oh I did. The next one was perpetually on holiday.

The number of clients who would ask me to “summarise” it hmm as they couldn’t be bothered to read it!

Why wouldn't you summarise it though?

Business reports have exec summaries. Scientific studies have abstracts. What make this report so special that this courtesy is not afforded to the people reading it?

It's this attitude that keeps law firms stuck in the past IMO.

The legal industry is ripe for disruption. With ABS / the relaxing of the rules about who can be a law firm, I don't think the industry will last long without major overhaul, once it faces serious competition.

Another conveyancing solicitor here and it is not an easy job.

I do think some clients think you are just sat at your desk waiting for them to call you. I like to think that I do a good job for my clients (I get repeat business so hopefully they think that too), but sometimes it is difficult for clients to understand that whilst I would love to speak to them the second they call and email, if I am doing that I am not doing work on their house sale/purchase.

There are some days where you actually get very little work done during the day due to the amount of calls and appointments, so you have to spend the evening working to get anything progressed.

I am not saying there are not bad apples in the bunch (everyone in conveyancing will have certain people or firms that make them groan when they see they are on the other side) and we get as frustrated as the clients do over it.

Most are not like that though and most of us work hard to do the best by our client. I have been dealing with one solicitor emailing me from his 'Greek office' - he is on holiday this week and still working. Most jobs do not have that.

Think of it this way - we get paid a set fee no matter how long it takes. Why on earth would we want to drag a sale out to 3 months, getting chased more and more when we could get it done in 2 months, have less chasing and therefore be more profitable.

It is a little galling when you get paid £1,200 for an expensive house and then see the estate agents submit a bill of £25,000 as I have had before.

Conveyancing is not a quick process. If you are a cash buyer and want no searches it can be quick (I once completed in 10 days), but most people are taking out a mortgage and the mortgage company have a lot of hoops.

Snail mail for anything other than certain signed documents is silly (the transfer has to be signed in hard copy, but I will email it to clients to print, sign and return), but some are still old school. I have one firm I am dealing with at the moment who do not accept email at all! It is rare and we try to send what we can by email.

Yes it does sound harsh that it has taken so long and I can understand your frustration. There is no excuse for a solicitor to disappear and for someone not to be able to cover. If I know I am going to be off, I make sure someone has the file to deal with whilst I am off and I am contactable if needed. You do not go and hide and ignore everyone so you are right to be annoyed.