to feel so outside all the cliques before my child even starts school

[newsparklythings]

Just that really. I've attended a school introduction and all the parents seemed to immediately split into groups that seem very like cliques. I tried talking to a few other mums and felt quite rejected. I have MH issues - anxiety, depression, quite severe a lot of the time - and find groups of new people especially difficult. But was hoping to make an effort for my daughter's sake and so I don't always feel like a loner in the playground. AIBU to feel this way?

We're all only there to pick the kids up from school. Keep that in mind. It's not a speed dating meet

Treat is as a chance to chill and have 5 minutes peace and quiet while you're waiting. Once you stop waiting for it to happen youre almost guaranteed to get someone interrupting chatting to you one day!

Look at it this way -
the people already in friendship groups will be busy doing their group thing, not aware of anyone else or who they're with or not with.
The people who are not in a group or a pair (and that IME includes most of the Dads; they don't seem to get involved in all this stuff) will be just like you so wont be looking at you or judging you either.

Like others I suspect that some of the people who looked like cliques from the outside weren’t really. Most people find that kind of situation awkward - I’m sure I’d be perceived as confident and sociable and I am for the most part but ‘meeting new school parents’ was definitely a time I had to force myself to be brave when I didn’t feel it and start conversations. Anxiety and depression won’t help with that I know. What’s really hard is if you feel knocked back by one person to persevere and try again with the next but you need to do this to find the friendly people. Mostly it’s really not you, it’s them.

Good luck. Don’t despair!

Steely gives excellent advice, these things happen organically, there’s no rush. Be friendly and chatty and the rest will follow.

FWIW I think it’s wise to stay out of the cliques, they can get a bit heated and claustrophobic over 7 years, especially when the kids fall out.

Children who bullied, grow up and have dcs. They don't know how to behave kindly. Also I found that the friends I made when my dcs were small, once they grew up we had nothing in common. Suck up all your energy, say hello, you may strike it lucky and meet someone great. At one point I knew a woman as we had the same friends. She would glare at me or completely blank me if I said hello. I have no idea why she found me so unacceptable. Some people are just bastards. 'Don't make excuses for nasty people. You can't stick a flower in an arsehole and call it a vase.'

I really feel for you. I felt exactly the same, right through until year 1, when I organised a small social event. I asked a couple of people I knew, and they brought people they knew, and we all had a great time. It turns out they all get the same. I now feel much more confident, and have people I can text, which is a massive deal to me.
It is really early days for you, but it is so hard when everybody seems to gel, and you don’t, but hang on in there!

Maybe they're just groups of women who know each other? My daughter starts school this year and 3 of my friends have new starters as well. We'll probably catch up at the school gate. I haven't experienced the school gate but it can't be expected that every parent has to make friends can it?

I never bothered with the whole school gate social thing. I was there to pick up the kids. Not make friend

I've stood on my own in the playground for 10 years and got another 3 ish years to go (3 kids spaced out in age)🙈 it bothered me at first seeing all the cliques but now I couldn't care less as it means I'm not involved in any playground drama (of which there is plenty at my kids school lol) I like to think I'm a nice person, I'm neither the youngest or the oldest of any of the other parents in the cliques so there's no specific reason why I've always been on the outside but like I say I'm not bothered anymore, I drop off and pick up the kids, that'll do me 😊

I am the loner in the playground and I don't care. The trick is to learn not to care, I used to. Now I cba with the constant interaction so I actually prefer it.

Like 80% + of the kids at our school live on the estate but I don't, so it figures I won't know anyone.

Rupert / you sound so lovely.
I can sympathise totally - had all this in the past too.
Op / I wish you luck and keep your chin up.
Just be yourself!

I felt EXACTLY as you did. I didn't know anyone when my boy went into reception, they all knew each other, and talked about their skiing trips and things I just COULD NOT identify with. I felt really outside and on the edge of things for the first two years.

Then I made a couple of friends. Really nice mums.

Now my boy is 9. I know loads and loads of mums and honestly, I'd rather be on my own in the playground most of the time. You start to realise that the fact you have kids the same age does not in any way qualify you to be friends. It's an artificial environment to make friends. I still really like my original couple of mum friends, but no desire to be part of any mum clique.

You'll be grand. Promise.

I have a few weeks left of school run now that my youngest is finishing her time at primary school. I have done my decade in the playground and I have to say I am happy standing and waiting and not chatting. I had my time trying to be sociable - going for meals with the mums in my older kids year groups and chatting awkwardly. I have a couple of good friends a circle of acquaintances and nod and smile at others.

Friendships based on having children the same age is tenuous at best - you only really maintain friendships with people you have real affection and common interests with. I set up a bookclub, that was a nice way to keep in touch. I am working now so only do school run 2 days a week. That is plenty. It took me years but I realised everyone is awkward, and few people genuinely enjoy the school run - the so called cliques cling on to each other out of insecurity and safety in numbers as the friendships are based on convenience they are as shallow as tea spoons and bitchy as fuck. It is nothing to envy and keeping a slight distance of polite disinterest is very healthy - imo. You can find genuine friendships of course but it is more luck than judgement - so be assured just cos they look like they have "the secret" - most people really do not. smile and nod and be breezy its only the school run not a garden party.

I think most people feel the same at these sessions, and will all be nervous and gravitate to other parents that they have met or seen before at other childcare or whatever.

I think it's really easy in these circumstances to see the big groups as, by their nature, they take up space and make noise and not see the other nervous looking people who don't really know anyone or the people in the groups who do know those people but it's not their natural group and so they're wondering if they might make some new friends. All I can suggest is to go in with a smile and introduce yourself to everyone and anyone. It's really hard but it does break the ice.
I now have a "clique" (or a group of friends!) in both of my DC's years but it isn't a closed group and nor was it by invitation only but just grew over the years. Some days I'll stand with A and then B & C will join us as they like A but they'd be unlikely to come & speak to me if I was there by myself, other days, I'll stand with X, Y & Z and know that all of them would have stood with me whoever else was there. If all else fails, I tend to go & stand next to the person standing by themselves as there is a greater chance they'll chat to me and then I won't look like billy-no-mates. Its also a chance to get to know that person a bit as who knows when I might bump into them again.

@RupertBear15

I remained an outsider throughout

I spent years just dropping my kids off and running away

then going last minute to collect them.

I never spoke to anyone much and kept myself to myself

was my choice in some respects

were so many very confident women who might say "hello" but who never really included you or invited you out.

I am so sad that my anxiety and lack of confidence stopped me from trying harder to make friends

I’m terribly socially awkward and suffer from anxiety and worry what people think of me.
My son started school last September and over the year I’ve got to know a lot of parents. As hard as it was I made myself chat to them, I smiled, said hello to everyone and then eventually relationships start to form. A lot of them are younger than me and we’re in school with my siblings, so I recognised them and introduced myself.
I picked up on little things I overheard, one of the mothers has a little girl with the same name as mine so we got chatting about that.

Be open, smile and say hello to everyone.
There’s a mum in my sons year who I’ve known for years. We get on quite well but she doesn’t talk to anyone. She doesn’t intergrate herself. She stands there, doesn’t say anything to anyone unless I turn up. Her son hasn’t gone to any parties.

Parties are the best way of getting to know people.

Please don’t worry. I was terrified when my ds started school but now I love doing the school run and chatting to everyone.

You're really not missing anything! You,'ok make a couple of friends on the way and that's enough. There'll be passing hellos and eventually chat at events. I miss picking my children up from school (I work full time) but I don't pine for the compant of other parents for that 20 mins

The people who are not in a group or a pair (and that IME includes most of the Dads; they don't seem to get involved in all this stuff

That will be mostly because the Dads work full time. I do but currently doing two days of school pick ups. I don’t have time to chat to people and do play dates after pick up. I arrive, pick my child up, and head straight back home to continue work. I think for the mums, a lot of them are looking to form mum friends groups.

I had no interest in any of that school gate crap, whatsoever. My last kid is nearly out of high schol now but for years I was at various primary schools picking my sons up, as never engaged, quite deliberately.

After a while I figured out that a Walkman (later, iPod) and dark glasses did the trick. And of course, the second the kids got to high school none of that mattered - ever again. Truly. I didn't miss the inane chat (and it did seem inane, when I overheard it, which wasn't often due to the ear-phones...)

My kids weren't in the least bothered. One of y sons told me his friends thought I was the 'cool' mum!

I used to be a teacher so had seen it all from the other side of the school gate, anyway. Sometimes think I'm either blessed or autistic because I don't care what strangers think of me - never have, never will.

Should add, that was nothing to do with lack of confidence. Just I have a low boredom threshold.

You might find that the mums form a new facebook or whatsapp group when the kids actually start in September. That will be a good way of getting involved. The people who were chatting already knew each other but that doesn't mean they were being cliquey. Remember they were there to find out about their child's new class etc. and may have been nervous or stressed about it. If they are rude at school drop off/pick up that's different but they were not there to meet new friends and network they were there for their child. Relax it will be fine. Mums are fairly easy to talk to just say something generic like comment on how lovely the teacher is as you wait to pick up and then ask them how their DC is settling in. Playdates will help too. As a pp said you might need to try a few miserable ones before you find the ones worth bothering with but chances are there will be someone.

I’ve never bothered with any of it.
I drop the kids to school. Stand around with them for about 2 minutes before the bell goes, then head back to the car. No time for chatting.

Rinse repeat at home time. Arrive, wait a minute or two, collect and go.

I see the same groups of Mums chatting in the same old spot every day, and the same parents standing on their own every day, it’s an even mix.

They’re only cliques if you desire inclusion. If you want to use this 2 minute opportunity twice a day to make new friends, it requires steadfast effort to break in, show enthusiasm, bring something to the party, ...

and then begin a 5 year commitment to all the joys of passive aggressive why didn’t she nod hello or talk to me this morning or laugh at her joke but not mine or wave goodbye or invite me for coffee after drop off....

I did try once and made what I thought was a fab new friend, she was new to the village, all hippy trippy arty farty, our kids were similar ages, and as she garnered new friends around her, we we’re invited to a pub, and they all sat there nodding and agreeing with Miss I Love Animals And Everyone’s Beautiful that the village council estate residents were scum (her words) and let the place down, and I balked inside realising rainbow triber was a phoney, and before you know it, bam, school gate tensions, Queen Bee rises, .... luckily I’m a loner by nature so slipped away unnoticed. I wouldn’t choose to make a school gate chum again.

Anyway, cliques always have a leader just remember, and they probably use bully tactics to keep their minions loyal, however mild or obvious. I’d recommend making friends with the parent who always stands alone, not the bunch of Mums who always stand together.

Why are they cliques? Surely they're just friendship groups which you aren't part of and with the attitude of 'they're cliquey' why would you be part of them? You obviously look down on them.

You are probably wondering what you have got yourself into op!

I have been in both camps. The stand alone drop and run and the queen bee group and others besides. I have endured thirteen years of this and counting..

I have learnt that everyone hates the school gates (apart from the networker mother who uses it as an opportunity) but we all have to endure it for the sake of our children.

You can be the bright and breezy busy mama in and out and not engaging at all, or you can take the time to get to know a few mothers and this will take time and you will have to be careful. Do not open up your entire life to anyone unless you know them very very well, or you will be Monday's fodder at the gates. Take your time choosing friends that reflect your values do not just jump in feet first as some groups will be very hard if not impossible to leave.

You may, like me, discover some lovely friends and enjoy your time joking at the gates, have shared interests and enjoying spending time together, or you may discover the opposite. Every year is different.

The one thing to bear in mind at all times is that the school gates really is not a social club even though it looks like it, and everything you do will reflect on your children.
Your children's education and happy childhood experience is paramount so if you end up becoming part of clique and it all falls apart you could potentially embarass or make things awkward for your dc (This happened to a friend of mine and it went on for years and years, awful)

So make enduring friendships by all means, go out for dinner and enjoy their company but always keep your dignity (don't get drunk, you will never live it down) keep your secrets to yourself or they will no longer be secrets and try not to take it too seriously.

Those other mamas are human beings doing their best, like we all are. Be kind, never gossip and nice at all times and you won't go far wrong.