to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

@foxpox - torn between hoping that they get their comeuppance and hoping that they can be happy in their little bubble

.....I guess that's luck.

But hey, that's them. Who cares. Sounds like you care about bringing up socially responsible polite kids which is what I have tried to do too. The private vs state things will never replace decent parenting.

I want my DD to be confident, look people in the eye, express opinions and to try her best and I like to think she has been taught to take everyone on their own merits. To get on this world you need to be a decent fair human being that people want to work with and who respects others (unless you fancy yourself as a 3rd world dictator).
The days of jobs for the boys are on the way out even in my industry (think white, middle aged, male, public school old boys - or 'old white male and stale' as a colleague describes them )

I wonder what (if anything) the OP got out of this thread?

This is what DH experienced, from both school and home. He was ridiculed by his (working class, Liverpudlian, family) and told that “people like us, from around here, don’t go to university”.

I have heard something like this on MN before and it always astonishes me. I don't know any Irish family who didn't/don't want their children to go to university if possible - doesn't matter what socio-economic group you are in. Maybe traveller families would prefer their children to stay away from outside influences? Ditto in the USA, every family I know from a wide range of economic groups aspire for their child to go to university - might not always happen but it is an aspiration. Only group I could think of who would say something like the above are maybe deeply conservative christian or jewish families - even then most evangelical christians will want their child to go to one of the religious universities.

I don't buy the grammar school thing. I live in a huge grammar area, know lots of people who went to grammar schools, including my husband and they are like normal state kids. I go to uni across the road from a grammar and kids all behave like typical teens when they kick out. There's a private school near the back entrance of our uni though and I definitely can tell a difference with them, they often go jogging and are so well behaved and polite!

In answer to your original question, you can't, that's why private schools exist, thankfully.

Jonbb

I disagree, you can encourage all these things through H.ed if you've a mind too.
Maybe, it's easier in a private school, but people on here have posted how some good state schools can gain the same result.

Jonbb what a load of twaddle of course you can!

Is it the school or the parents though?

Getting dc to be polite and aware of other people takes time! I'm constantly reminding mine to be aware of the elderly etc, be polite. At parties for her sibs I try and get her to introduce herself and make her "aware" that the people coming to our house have never been here before, they are our guests and its up to us to make them feel welcome..offer them food...and even if she feels shy - just say " hello" and make eye contact etc.

Also lavish with affection and praise. If your family isn't interested in education or improving yourself...they may not praise in that particular way...

Having something about you to get you away I think gives confidence, it could be money - or brains. but sometimes to just get out and away from a situation, many people with no money cant do this - feeling so stuck and trapped does squash spirit.

Personally I feel teachers and school step in where parents can't to me its the whole point of school.

Ie the personality of the teacher comes through but it cant come through if that teacher is frantic - meeting deadlines and targets and spending most of the lesson managing the dc.

you said that the people who go to private school are from the same social group and I said no, that I was as common as muck and that I wasn't the only commoner

This is my experience too - I can only assume posters who make those comments have not had any experience of private school. There are the Big Ones, Harrow, Eton etc, where it really will be quite exceptional to have lower socio economic dc there.

However your average local private usually has a wide range of dc there,. including many with special needs, so many GP funding it, single parents and so on.

@Ohsuchaperfectday - yep a mix here too

I am an ex grammar girl (don't heckle!!) from a working class background (grandparents bought their council house)
Decent job and decent money
Single parent and for 12 years no financial contribution from her father
DD goes to a middle/high tier selective independent
DD is dyslexic.
Many of her friends are very very rich (think old money and also some footballers wives types)
Some parents own shops, some are Drs (actually lots are GPS, surgeons and dentists) some are investment bankers, many of them are kids of foreign international diplomats
I live in a small house in a decent area

And where do they all come? Where do they have sleep overs? Yep, mine

So please don't assume that all private school kids are up themselves!!
That's inverted snobbery at best

However your average local private usually has a wide range of dc there,. including many with special needs, so many GP funding it, single parents and so on.“

What’s that got to do with the social class they belong to?

BertrandRussell
What’s that got to do with the social class they belong to?

It's clear that these are different dimensions which vary within the 'wide range of children':

• wide range of social class (previously aluded to)
• wide variety of needs for educational support ("many with SEN")
• wide range of income ("GP funding it")
• wide range of family setup ("single parents")

These are orthogonal concerns (which is made clear by the phrase "and so on").

It's in no way implied that these all apply to the same child The examples all show that in each of these dimensions, there are children who don't adhere to the stereotypes held by some people.

Being deliberately obtuse in order to misrepresent people's views might help you to feel self-righteous, but it's neither helpful nor intellectually honest.

"Being deliberately obtuse in order to misrepresent people's views might help you to feel self-righteous, but it's neither helpful nor intellectually honest."

I was responding to a PP's assertion that one of the functions of a private school was to teach children how to fit into a particular social group-examples being the emphasis on table manners and greeting people properly. I pointed out that most pupils at private school would be part of that social group already, and would have learned those rules at home. This applies to them whether they are funded by grandparents, come from single parent families or have additional needs.

@bertrandrussell firstly same social "group" is not the same as "class". There are lots of social groups in the UK not related to class. Secondly you say I pointed out that most pupils at private school would be part of that social group already, and would have learned those rules at home. This applies to them whether they are funded by grandparents, come from single parent families or have additional needs and no that is wrong, no, they were not mostly from the same social groups, nor the same class for that matter, and were not learning the "right" social skills at home.

The sort of mannerisms you pick up in private schools which gives the impression of confidence are similar to those you'd find amongst the lawyers, politicians, etc, I think, and it isn't primarily to do with table manners, it is also to do with how you engage with people and interact with people. It is an interesting thing about social rules in the UK, I think. Knowing the "rules" disguises your background.

The main things I got from the school, however, was a love of learning and know how about how to pass exams, and different expectations, for example a new expectation that i'd go to uni.

@bertrandrussell I posted too soon - you say one of the functions of a private school was to teach children how to fit into a particular social group-examples being the emphasis on table manners and greeting people properly I am assuming that wasn't me, but if you did mean me, you misunderstood as I said that you learned rules of a particular social group but not that it was one of the functions of the school to teach children how to fit into a particular social group - the mannerisms I referred to are picked up from the other children, handed down year to year. The teachers were mostly very down to earth types, focused on teaching and helping the pupils learn.

“the mannerisms I referred to are picked up from the other children, handed down year to year.“

So you’re agreeing with me- the vast majority of the other children already know “the rules”? I am a little puzzled here.......

@bertrandrussell no I am definitely not agreeing with you!! I explained in my earlier post The mannerisms and social "rules" still get handed down from year to year whether or not the majority come from one particular social group and that probably comes from when it was the preserve of the privileged, all those years ago.

In my experience (2 children currently in private school, one started in state primary) it is all about class sizes.
Both of mine are fairly confident but for the one who started in state primary, when they moved to private the difference in confidence with adults and others noticeably increased and when they were younger they were both quite, sometimes embarrassingly, precocious with strangers when out and about. I think this is down to two things: the teachers would chat with the children individually, because they had time to and also, they were put on the stage all the time, doing little plays, poetry readings, etc. My feeling though is that it is largely down to the amount of attention they get - when they open the mouths to speak they get listened to and interacted with by the teachers. They are also picked up on their manners and rewarded for being helpful, e.g. opening doors for staff, and they shake hands with the teacher at the end of the day.
In our case it is absolutely nothing to do with feeling superior or social status as this does not apply to our family and the schools they attend(ed) are not at all elitist.

Not rtfd, but I really can't think of anything that a similar background wouldn't be doing in the state system.

There will be a range of backgrounds at any independent, from the traditionally working class on a bursary, first/second generation immigrant, wealthy but abusive/ neglectful parents and everything in between. As well as the stereotype of the typical background.

The one thing they all have in common is privilege. Whether that's the privilege of being able to access the bursary system through parental involvement and ability, parents able and willing to make sacrifices to access what they believe is the best education, or the privilege of class and/ or wealth.

The only thing I can think of is all those different privileges rubbing off on each other.

Anecdotal, and certainly won't apply at the type of independent that attracts large numbers of parents there for the snob value, but I'd also say at dd's the sense of security in the parents own social status is part of it, whatever that status is.

Ime the social group where the most snobbery occurs is the lower middle class. Some seem to feel a need to affirm their own social status either by putting down the working class or deprived, through inverse snobbery, or both. And certainly at dds, and experiences I've heard about other similar independents, that mentality is such a small minority they don't have the opportunity to reduce other dcs confidence.

Also won't apply to all independents, but the pastoral care. State schools with all the will in the world simply don't have the resources to support every major problem that could destroy a child's confidence, let alone minor temporary dents. Whereas an independent that values pastoral care does have the resources

Cblue.

People make friends on who they like, not checking first the size of someones house or the money in their DP account, we are drawn to who we are drawn too. So it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Usually the more relaxed DP who give the dc some space and allow then to stay are going to be the winners not uptight ones with show homes...or the tight ones who re use tea bags. So yes, this stuff really doesn't matter.

mrsm you say 'Cheerymom obviously has an axe to grind, b' because I saw a HOD of department write in pencil Speaking and Listening grades on the sheet for the exam board and then an hour later mark up every single one by five marks. Because I had to practically DO COURSEWORK
for a student or risk losing my job. I have no axe to grind, I been head hunted for many schools and chose to work in comps, Catholic ( for girls and a private (GDST) for girls and the only one I witnessed this cheating in was at the private, Of course I am not saying this happens everywhere but I do believe my own eyes and it was an unspoken acceptance. If the grades weren't happening staff had to make them happen. No axe I promise, Im sure no parents wants to hear that, didn't Harry ) Prince) get dubious help, O and Edward getting into Cambridge despite terrible grades. These are extreme examples but filter down in little ways. Most private schools have great staff but the pressure to 'help' illegally is phenomenal and nor am I saying it doesn't happen in state schools, I just didn't see it.

Haven’t read the whole thread but will try - it’s a v interesting question. I’ve taught in state and private and in the current private with some of the kids it is arrogance rather than confidence but on the whole, confidence

I was a not very confident child who went to state and then private for the last few years. I don’t think I’d have got into my uni (interview system) or enjoyed the uni life (lots of v self confident boys) without the private years. For me what did it might have been:

1. extra curricular enrichment - lectures at the school etc, with encouragement/coercion to ask qs at the end - developed wider cultural knowledge, sense of being informed and being encouraged to have an opinion.
2. extra curricular classes - drama, interview technique training, speech and language. I didn’t do debate but we all have interview training in general, then Oxbridge has special sessions with Head etc. Speech and language lessons took place in the school day so were very common and easy to do.
3. small classes - at sixth form I was the only pupil in one class! No option but to voice my opinion and form one. Talking to teachers as almost equals - and lower down the school, with less behaviour management to do generally, teachers could allow more debates and free flowing lessons rather than having to quieten pupils.
4. activities which took you out of your comfort zone - e.g. charity work (which school did to prove it was helping local community and making us give make to community etc).

Now I’m still not very confident but I became very good at faking it. This was quite a minor public girls school so not even anything like the advantages of the bigger ones.

It all comes down to money (smaller class sizes, extra activities). To create similar for one’s child without the money of the school, if not going private, I’d say the most important is debating/speaking/performing opportunities. Of course many state schools will have these too but you have to seek them out and sometimes they’re not available to all pupils even if they have them.

Oh and I have found going to both state and private helped with not becoming an entitled or ivory towered prat (I hope). Private schools should do far more to impress upon their pupils that the wealth of their parents is mostly down to luck rather than superiority to the hoi polloi.

It is difficult to teach DC that people should be valued equally for reasons that are not financial when you don't meet families who are on a different economic planet. In our (very mixed) school experiences we have known people who were wealthy and those earning minimum wage, but most kids will only know one OR the other end of the spectrum, rather than both. I have no conciliatory solution to propose on this dilemma.