to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

My experience of this is that a pp said the ex private schoolers are good at appearing confident but that that doesn't mean they are necessarily competent. They just talk a good game and that can get you a long way. (That said I've only worked with or met a small number of privately educated individuals so I'm sure my view doesn't fit for the whole lot of them) .

For my state school educated and very shy dd1 the thing that boosted her confidence the most was sport. We found a team sport she liked and enjoyed (though she wasn't that great at first-but is now really good at having found her niche within the team). It worked wonders.
Dd2 is already a tad over confident in lots of ways so not an issue with her. Which also goes to show that personality plays a huge part too.

Stoicism is what's left when confidence fades. Resilience is the ability to pick yourself up and shake off whatever bad stuff happened, keep focused on where you want to go and not let a few hiccups derail you. Massively important, and rightly recognised as such at all schools I would hope. But ds's private prep was extremely focused on it, I don't hear about it so much now he's older..

"You do have some funny ideas about private schools!"

I think that you do if you genuinely believe that there are many "common as muck" (your words-not an expression I would use) pupils in private schools who need to be "polished", like the perennial cook's daughter character in Enid Blyton!

Cblue - you've nailed it I think.

My step-brother married into a family where all siblings and extended family had gone to private schools, really prestigious ones too. We've all met each other and get on well but a few little things Ive noticed in how they treat their similar age dcs,

• In a restaurant the children are encouraged to order their own food from the waiter/server.
• every effort is made to mingle children from classes. None of that, let them make their own friends. Everything is planned and choreographed to ensure each child has exposure to all types of personalities and helped to mix well with everyone.
• Taught, actually explicitly taught to expect things to happen for them if they go about it the right way (I think there's an opportunity for creating little psychopaths here because it's teaching manipulation!) But, the expectation that you can get what you want if you just know the right strings to pull makes you feel powerful... which equals a degree of confidence. This

makes me uncomfortable. I think humility comes first but I'm not confident.

• Allowing and encouraging them to be the decision makers for adult arrangements. Infuriating to me at times because sometimes I think a 6 year old should just button up and keep their nose out, but again treating them as equals seems to be an important aspect in all this.

I think there's always a wrong way to instil confidence just as there's a right way. Whilst my step SIL is brilliant and lovely two of her siblings are awful and their confidence spills over to arrogant entitlement.

@bertrandrussell I most definitely do not think that, and didn't say that, so I am guessing you are deliberately misinterpreting what I wrote, which is a bit bizarre. Anyway - just to put it in context, you said that the people who go to private school are from the same social group and I said no, that I was as common as muck and that I wasn't the only commoner (lighthearted). I also said I didn't go there to learn social skills obviously. Okey dokey? Sorry if you were offended by me saying that you had some funny ideas - I meant that you were very wrong about the same social group thing.

There are always exceptions that prove the rule-I assumed that would be taken as read. The fact remains that the vast majority of private school users are from broadly the same social class. And will learn table manners and how to greet people at home, regardless of the school they go to.

One thing I always wondered is in the Independents my children attended the teachers almost always sent their own children state despite having a hefty discount. If teachers left they often went to the State sector as well and they were always the better teachers that we would be gutted to lose. May just be a coincidence though.

I have no direct experience of state schools and send mine private but do ponder frequently whether I am wasting my money. I have observed though that a number of people I know who started in state have moved by y2 to private (even if it wasn't their intention originally) where they could afford it. The reason seems to be that they felt their children weren't being 'stretched'.

As to inherited intelligence - I tend to assume that my clever friends will have clever children but no idea if that is true. I would have thought that with a normal nurturing childhood from 0-3 it is then the innate IQ that makes the difference which is presumably to some degree inherited. No scientific basis for that though!

I think confident children come from all walks of life. A certain polish and ease may come from some private schools.

user1466518624 lol!

@bertrandrussell no, I wasn't the exception which proved the rule, as I said. It was not the case that the vast majority of pupils at my private school came from a particular social group. It is more to do with wealth and wealth can be accumulated in a variety of ways nowadays. The mannerisms and social "rules" still get handed down from year to year whether or not the majority come from one particular social group and that probably comes from when it was the preserve of the privileged, all those years ago. There are also bursaries for the non wealthy, and some of the parents scrimp and save. I hope that makes more sense now, and you see that I was trying to make a valid point, not just having a pop. Also many parents do not have the time to be doing stuff at home, many of my friends' parents worked all hours to give them the opportunity, they were not at home teaching table manners and giving practice dinner parties... (and the homes empty of parents meant we had some wild parties).

• I went to private school im pretty confident. I reckon it's down to being cultured and well informed but a lot of that cane from my mum Too*

I've worked with lots of privately educated people. It's money and a sense of entitlement - some we're fine and some were as thick as mince but the plummy accent disguised that.

I earn shit wages, have no job security but am widely travelled, speak a number of languages and am highly educated. Neither my kids nor I have much confidence - they know were much less well-off than their friends.

were fine FFS

I have taught in four private schools and three lea schools. Good and bad in both. But in one private school a child was given a huge trophy for a project that no one had ever participated in.

user1466518624 -
I think it may just be a coincidence.
The teachers at my dc's schools almost all took advantage of the discounted fees.

Bluetrampolines - could you enlarge on the story about the trophy for a project which no one participated in, please?

@foxpox - you said decision makers for adults. I don't think that's quite right. They have 'say' and express their preference the same as everyone else but aren't the decision makers. They learn to negotiate but again they learn to lose gracefully. Actually I think that's also part of the 'personal responsibility', respecting all opinions, people don't just do what you want them to, cause and effect life lesson.
If you go down the mind their manners and do what you are told route you end up with either
(a) subservient kids who never make a decision (and suffer its consequences) and is ill equipped for future life
OR
(b) a kid who thinks they have to do what adults tell them until the rebel and then turn into a nightmare (especially if from a privileged background and thinks everyone else is inferior and should do what they say)

Oh, and the majority of DDs teacher' kids go to her school (hefty discount).
The bursary and scholarship kids also turn out the same as those who pay the full fee. So def can't be because of money. Has to be attitude and learnt social norms

The few teachers children that were is the schools also always got the prizes on speech day. That is one aspect of private I really do not miss, speech days were painful!

We had very strict rules and they expected a lot from us. We were encouraged to be ourselves and excel in what we were good at. I would say confident parents help

@user1466518624 - nope not here.

Kids get prizes for being the best at something not for being someone's DD/DS.

DD had a single prize at aged 11 for being the most improved. She had been in the school since aged 4 and this year has just finished her GCSEs and hasn't got anything since and won't get anything again - there are people who are better than her at things . It was a very proud day because she had earned it.

...,like I said, the school promotes healthy competition. Not prizes based on who you are. Her prize recognised that she had exceeded her personal best by a mile (a single most improved prize is awarded cross school aged 4 to 18).

Lots have never had a prize and never will. The house system also helps - a prize = points for your house so 25% of the school are thrilled that you won!

Cblue I agree with you. Just pointing out some things I've noticed spending time with my extended family who went to and now send their kids to private schools. When we have spent time together their dcs will often be asked what we are having for dinner, what we will do and sometimes just small minor things like who will sit on what chair and there's never any question of us not going along with it. These children are 6 and 8 so it's not just humouring them. It's allowing them to tell me and my family what to do because they have equal weight in their house, and we are visitors.

But, as this thread is discussing they are very confident kids and whether this is a positive aspect of their upbringing or not, I am not convinced, but it is something that happens a lot. I have no idea if a sense of authority and superiority is a common characteristic of confident privately educated children or not.

@foxpox - oooerrrr
That's nothing to do with private school and confidence that's something else entirely. Breeding 'My Little Prince' and 'My Little Princess' is shameful!!!
What you end up with are total brats who will get a nasty shock when they grow up and will spend their lives with a sense of entitlement or marry people who will do exactly as they tell them to.

Don't wish to be rude but they sound thoroughly spoilt. I don't think that's just private though (well mine isn't like that - she has her faults but that isn't one of them). I know lots of state school kids who are exactly the same so it's not a private vs state issue it's a 'My kid is more important than anyone else'issue

@cblue
I suspected as much but it totally not my place to challenge it and I'd not come off well! I've never met children like them and they can be good company sometimes. They are inclusive of my younger dcs at all times and do have manners. Glad they're not indicative of most independent school kids though. I've never really been sure if the parenting is a product of the status the family feel they have, i.e their self confidence or the self confidence is a product of the way they all behave.

@foxpox - TBH that's the behaviour that ISNT tolerated at her school. Not just not tolerated by the teachers but by the students too. I think I said earlier about having an opinion but respecting others opinions

Can you imagine a class where everyone thinks they are entitled to tell everyone else where to sit?
The class would never start. You could probably make one of those documentaries about it hahahaha.

Basically you are describing total brats.

Like you I wouldn't say anything about it but I would probably sit through the ordeal thinking
Child - wait until you meet someone bigger and stronger than you who feels just as entitled as you
Parents- wait until they are teenagers

That would amuse me enough to sit through the entire evening

@cblue
I've thought about that, what they will do in a situation where they're not considered important...honestly though, with this family I just don't think it would ever happen. Or it would but they'd be so self assured they'd read the situation all wrong and to their advantage! There are plenty of people floating about like that.

But children make their own (usually astute) judgements of their parents and their friends/social groups (and their standing within groups) from a surprisingly young age. A friend's elder daughter very neatly pigeon-holed the more/less bright v more/less educated couples into their partnership roles at about nine. That was an eye-opener. She wasn't being intrusive or judging: she just knew which partner was the cleverer of each pairing. She had listened and observed.

What she did not know how to judge then (I bet she can now, 15 years on) was the dynamic behind those relationships. All remain married/couples, and all still friends. As an adult she will be making a more considered evaluation of what each brings to the partnership and why it continues to work, after 30 - 40 years. She could have been asked to set the table for dinner and work out who should sit where, and would have done it based on her observation of who liked each other most. And, she would have got it pretty well spot on. Some children are clever, quick students and work out very young how to manage people and relationships. They usually do well in life, even if they don't have squillions of qualifications or degrees. They have emotional intelligence and a knack for personal relationships, and in most cases, they will do better than people who are equally clever but have fewer soft skills. We all want to feel liked, valued and listened to, and IMVHO, those skills are learned very young and not from your parents. Boarding prep schools seem to do it best, BUT only for those that have the innate aptitude.