Females are shite at Maths

[AutisticHedgehog]

According to a fucking hilarious Mumsnet cliche-meme on the FB feed.

FFS this is appalling. Why are Mumsnet of all places perpetuating the myth that girls can’t do maths.

I know plenty will say “lighten up, it’s harmless fun” but it’s not. It’s continual nonsense-shite that pervades and influences girls and their views that maths is a boys’ subject.

Maths is for everyone.

Shame on you MN.

Too often, @OutwiththeOutCrowd, the evidence is used to support the idea that these differences are natural and innate, and therefore unlikely to change.

Well I'm appalling at maths but it's the dyscalcula rather than my vagina

Those males scoring higher at the upper scale of maths ability will have a higher ability to focus on one subject. They are not at the top of the scale because they are just better at maths just by being male.

How depressing. I spend a lot of time trying to teach young women who consider themselves both too cute and too thick todo maths. It saddens.me.

pickAChew has nailed it here. Males have a better ability to focus on one thing. Where females have a better ability to use other skills at the same time

where is the scientific evidence for this bollocks?

I believe that it's less about ability than giving a shit.

"Males have a better ability to focus on one thing. Where females have a better ability to use other skills at the same time."

I always thought that was because men were allowed to focus on one thing from a very young age. Whereas women internalise very young that they also have to keep an eye on everybody else's wellbeing and (for safety reasons) their own position in the group.

And based not on recorded evidence but on years of mixing with science, mathsy people in various contexts for most of my 3 decades of adult life.

And yes, Cory understands it.

Oh the irony. My math SAT 800 scoring DD has terrible ability to focus. I'm pretty sure she would be diagnosed as ADD if we had her assessed.

PickAChew

And based not on recorded evidence but on years of mixing with science, mathsy people in various contexts for most of my 3 decades of adult life

statistical analysis at its best.

Daddaddad: That’s interesting, Fruitcorner. Maths is a subject where you very exposed, because it’s clear whether you got something right or not. Are boys encouraged to thrive on the competitiveness that emerges from that, while girls shy away from a subject that doesn’t seem to allow working together towards an answer using consensus? Is the answer partly about teaching Maths in a different way, eg I’ll tell you at outset what the answer is, now can we work out the best way to reach that answer?

Sorry but that just sounds a little daft. I would be hugely patronised to be spoken to in that way.

I love the fact that for maths, there is only one right answer (though different ways of getting to it) and therefore, you can almost be guaranteed a 100% score at the exam if you are good at it. I studied in Singapore which is no slouch at a national level when it comes to math. There is a weird cultural fear of math that is pervasive in the UK (my British dh has it) which I don't understand. Girls have a double whammy to overcome because apparently, they are not supposed to be good at it.

And blue shoes gets it.

There's is recorded evidence that single sex schooling is better for girls than for boys.

Fuck that shit. I sat a very enjoyable tertiary maths exam this afternoon, and I know I passed. I hate lazy humour.

blueshoes

I don't know whether you are male or female but the clear confidence you have in your ability is considered a very "male" trait in the UK.

There is a weird cultural fear of math that is pervasive in the UK

That's very true. I wonder if the confidence in oneself that I have earlier suggested is necessary to be good at Maths is just not an acceptable character trait to us Brits, particularly a demure British woman.

I know they've apologised but actually worrying they needed someone to point out the everyday sexism. Come on mn, lead the way!

DH hasn't got Maths GCSE, whilst I've got an A level. DCs would never go and go and ask him for help!

Same, chocolateworshipper! I'm the mathematician in our house.

I had to deal with so much shite when I first started maths A level from people who told me that maths is a boys subject. I hoped we'd moved on from that nowadays. I'm glad MN have seen sense and taken it down, but it makes me wonder just who they're employing behind the scenes and what on earth they were thinking.

Fruitcorner I am all woman.

You say earlier on in the thread: I made a point earlier in the thread which, granted, was anecdotal about my experience as a teacher of girls who are good at Maths and how they often don't believe in themselves or even have encouragement from home to believe in themselves. Maths is all about trying and failing and eventually getting a solution. This is a generalisation but the boys I teach generally have the confidence sometimes arrogance to make mistakes and keep on trying. Girls are far more worried about failure and embarrassing themselves. They are not born like this so what do we do to create this gender difference?

It is an interesting point. I see the same dichotomy, not necessarily between girls and boys, but culturally between Britain and Singapore (and similar Asian cultures). The latter don't believe so much in natural ability as in hard work to overcome a lack of ability. What is worse than failure is giving up because there is a strong belief everyone can get to an equivalent standard, so long as they put in the hard work.

With my dcs having grown in the UK school system, I see them being told it is not their fault if they cannot get it right. It is the school for not teaching well enough. Try something else. Essays with spelling and grammatical mistakes left uncorrected. Things start well and somehow fizzle out.

With math, it is all about practice. It is a building block approach. It suits the Asian culture and mentality. It lends itself less well to a culture that gives up too soon because it is hard.

blueshoes

I agree with everything you have said. It applies not just to Maths but to our culture in schools. If my child is misbehaving it's because the teacher can't control the class. If my child can't read its because the teacher hasn't taught him well. If my child can't tell the time (despite the fact we have no clocks in the house and have never bought him a watch) it's the schools fault. If my child is rude to the teacher it's because the teacher doesn't command respect. Children are not taught to persevere through failure they are taught to blame others and try something else.

I have no idea where this culture comes from. I was at school in the 1980s/1990s and it wasn't as extreme as it is now. I imagine my parents would say the same. It's a culture that has developed over time.

Perhaps the way we inspect schools and constantly test our students and the way league tables/ofsted etc. play the blame game has something to do with it. Teachers are undermined and not respected and it's become acceptable to just blame the teacher when things go wrong. I'm just thinking out loud really!

fruitcorner: Children are not taught to persevere through failure they are taught to blame others and try something else.

We are now violently agreeing. A thousand times yes.

With math, you have to just push on even if your head hurts and try again and not move on until you got it right at least 3 times and mastered it to effortless. Then the next stage, repeat. It is such a simple formula but needs self discipline and I suppose some self belief. Asian parents don't generally make it optional.

This is a terrible stereotype but I think of Mr Miyagi and 'wax on wax off'. It is that philosophy of perfecting something relatively dull before being allowed or able to see higher concepts. It is not all fun at the start, which is very much so with math as it is more abstract. The pay off from delayed gratification comes later.

But UK schools insist children have to be engaged right from the start through inspirational teaching, I guess. Not enough emphasis on the student taking greater responsibility for their learning. It is not all the teacher's or the school's fault.

blueshoes

This discussion is not about UK educational values relative to Singaporean or other Asian educational values.

This is a discussion about the stereotyping of female born persons as worse at maths than male born persons and how that is introduced by society and perpetuated by the education system. SEXISM.

The subtext of what you are saying is that girls simply need a little more get up and go, to work that little bit harder. They are working hard. In some cases, they're working harder than the boys, getting better test results, then being told it's not for them and being asked to choose a different subject which is more in keeping with assumed femininity.

Women cannot work and study their way around a crooked system. The system must change to stop cheating women out of their place within it.

The subtext of what you are saying is that girls simply need a little more get up and go, to work that little bit harder.

KateSheppard to be fair to blueshoes I don't see the subtext you refer to. Here is what she says:
There is a weird cultural fear of math that is pervasive in the UK (my British dh has it) which I don't understand. Girls have a double whammy to overcome because apparently, they are not supposed to be good at it

and I absolutely agree with you that :Women cannot work and study their way around a crooked system. The system must change to stop cheating women out of their place within it

Take your quote out of context and it could apply to hundreds of different industries couldn't it? How sad is that?

KateShepperd: The subtext of what you are saying is that girls simply need a little more get up and go, to work that little bit harder. They are working hard. In some cases, they're working harder than the boys, getting better test results, then being told it's not for them and being asked to choose a different subject which is more in keeping with assumed femininity.

That is not what I was saying. That is a straw man argument which suits your particular bandwagon.

Would it surprise you that threads take off in different directions and you don't actually control the narrative or the debate?

Well, well. That certainly doesn’t happen in this house- I ‘do’ maths whilst DH scraped maths GCSE on the third attempt. Sad thing is that dd has already caught wind of the ‘girls aren’t good at maths’ myth, and she’s only yr 3.

Why can't they ask their father? Maybe he's the better mathematician.

Some people really can see sexism at every turn.