In Connecticut, two teenage boys who identify as girls have come 1st and 2nd in the girls' 100m sprint

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/GameTimeCT/status/1003739370736816129

Reposted from Feminism Chat as more people need to see this.

Neither Miller nor Yearwood have got times that would be remotely remarkable for boys (200th and 443rd respectively) but they are smashing the girls' records out of the park as now they identify as girls, they're allowed to race them instead.

Watch the face of the girl who comes third. That's pretty much her best ever 100m race. But she didn't win.

Self identification means this kind of thing will keep on happening. If you value women's sport and think that women and girls deserve to compete on a level playing field, please sign the petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

We’ve spoken about this before on the feminism boards. One poster was a woman and playing rugby against a tran that contained a transwoman. The poster’s teammates suffered five severe, potentially disabling injuries (blown knees, broken bones, shattered collarbones etc.)

When it comes to contact sports, lives are on the line. We wouldn’t allow a team of eight year old boys to play against a team of eighteen year olds, so why is it ok for men to play against women?

In this case, the two placed first and second are boys. They’ve had no treatment (thank god, hormonal treatment for kids is awful) , no hormones no nothing - they are males, who have simply said they are females and so get entered into the women’s races. And won.

If any male can do this, that’s women’s sport, all of it, down the swanny. There will be no more women’s sport. Of any kind.

And yes, In the USA, an awful lot rides on college and high school sport. It can be the ticket to education for people who might not otherwise get it.

This is depressing, disgraceful cheating.

I've read Judith Butler, not just Gender Trouble, along with a fuck ton of other gender studies stuff on my first degree.

It also tangentially connected to my PhD thesis.

There is literally nothing in it that suggests that it's fair for men to compete in women's sport.

If longlostpal thinks it does, they've failed to understand even its simplest premises.

I agree with a PP about Rachel Dozeal. I will never get how she was called 'deluded' and a 'liar' for saying she felt she was black. If she felt black, why was she anymore deluded than a man with a panic walking around and saying he is now a woman?

I think we will end up in a world where from one day the next you can claim to be anything you want. You will have adult claiming they are children and little old Welsh ladies claiming they are 30 year old Chinese men.

Personally, I've always been really interested in Jewish culture, but accept that I cannot make myself an ethnic Jew. Whilst I could become Jewish I'm not going to be able to change my genetic make up. In the long run I don't think it actually helps people to be told they can be anything they want when some of these things are absolutely, categorically, impossible to become.

I feel desperately sorry for the girls running against the trans girls. It's clearly unfair. But who are the people encouraging the trans girls to compete and who are the idiots saying it's ok? Bonkers

It's obviously totally unfair, and I despair at anyone who can look at this and think anything else.

I remember that thread about rugby, Bowl. It was shocking. My DS is still young enough that his team is mixed - there are several very promising girls on the team. But if things shape up the way they seem to be going, they'll have to give up as adults if confronted with a sport where transwomen play - because the risks of spinal injuries will just be too great.

Why don't they just have Transpeople categories - in the case mentioned here then the 2 guys could have had there own little race against each other.

I say transpeople deliberately - there couldn't be any arguments between them saying, for example, but you're a trans male to female and I'm a trans female to male so that's not fair.

I posted this link on the other thread. www.shortlist.com/entertainment/sport/the-worlds-first-transgender-footballer/73823 Jaiyah Saelua is a transwoman who plays men's football for American Samoa. She shows that it is possible to still be involved in sport while being trans - you just accept that you have to play according to your birth sex, and campaign for acceptance as a transwoman doing this. She's a principled sportsperson, IMO.

It’s already happening donut

Google Steph on knee.

IMO there’s a difference between your sex (biologically) and gender. I think society get those things confused sometimes so the lines get furred. This is an example of that.

You cannot change your biological sex, no matter how much you cut bits off or add them etc. You can just identify or change gender.

Things like this should be done on biological sex. There are pysological differences between male and female, hence they’ve always competed separately traditionally.

Jim I agree to an extent, but not necessarily about the psychological differences though.

With regards to the debate in hand, however, in terms of gender identity I might consider taking more seriously a transgender person who has actually had their body parts cut off and realigned and gone through all the drugs and trauma that those involve. I would evenhazard a premise that because of all the surgery and procedures that the transperson would be in no physically fit state to undergo the training regimes and physical exertions that would be required to keep them at the top of their 'game'.

I'm all for letting people identify as whatever they choose. It doesn't bother me in the slightest how people live their lives. But genetically they are different to women and always will be. Pre-op, they are male. Post-op they are still male. You cannot argue with genetics. If they were to have a blood test they would be identified as male. Regardless of whether they have a penis or not. Therefore they have an unfair advantage over the women and this is completely unfair and should never be allowed. Sometimes you just have to give up on unrealistic dreams. If they can't win against men then that's unfortunate but they can't then decide to win against women. That would be like me saying, well I can't beat those female athletes, so I'll go in the pre-school race.

Wrenika, surely the self worth and self identity (?) of all the competitors is of equal value? I can't imagine cheating does much for the self worth of the two boys. It's definitely not going to earn the respect of others.

Many people who have no view on trans issues but are keen on sports are outraged once they understand that males are being allowed to compete as females.

The profile of women's sport has slowly been rising, recognition of female football, rugby, cricket etc has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years. Women can now complete in most of the same events as men's (it's scary how recently us poor weak things weren't allowed to run more than 800m in the Olympics) and boom it's all going to be swept away. In unfair on the women that are competing now, it's unfair on those who pushed for recognition of their sport and those who pioneered pole vaulting and triple jumping etc for women.

Grumble

Yes. It's really no coincidence, is it?.

With the increasing pressure for the public to accept trans, without question, there will be a rapid decline in girls wishing to persue a career in sport. Who can blame them? Females no longer stand a chance 😢

I went to a conference last year. One of the speakers was born female but had transitioned to a man. He was wearing a suit, had very short cropped hair a goatee. His whole talk was about gender stereotypes and how wrong they were. I genuinely asked this question (I specifically went to this session to hear more about a topic I knew less about,) .... so I asked.... if you don't agree with gender stereotypes, why, once you transition, are you dressed in a very male gender stereotype? Honestly not trying to be goady. But if you disagree with what women / men look like, why do you dress "Like a man" once you transition? Surely you are then endorsing gender stereotypes?? He couldn't answer my question - his professor stepped in and started waffling about injustice instead.

It is the fact there are two of them that is so depressing. Girls nearly completely edged out by cheating males. I feel so sorry for the girl who won came third. How dare everyone around them collude in this madness.

I do think that the more this happens the more people will see how outrageous it is. When it is just one male winning in one women's competition, people can just dismiss it as not common, so not worth worrying about (although you can bet that if it was a male being cheated out of his rightful win we would hear all about it). More cheating men in women's sport, one podium where all three winners were born male and people will see how damaging it is. I hope.

Trans me and women shoukd have their own group for sports, because of the physical differences between biological men and women.

I think Jim meant "physiological" rather than "psychological"

There are lots of ‘trans issues’ on MN that I generally think are a fuss about nothing but this is fucking stupid. Soon women will feel there’s no point turning up. I have no idea how these trans women have the cheek to enter a women’s race, knowing they have such an obvious physical advantage. Can it be great for their self esteem either?

YANBU

I'd be interested to see how accepting of this sort of thing American Colleges actually are in awarding sports scholarships. Is there any information available? It's not something that had occurred to me until I read it here but it's yet another depressing addition to the problem.

When it comes to "cis" I'll throw the tra's insistence on "preferred pronouns" and avoiding mis-gendering and I'll tell them where they can poke their "cis". Woman. That's it. 100% the real deal, no extra descriptors required.

The comments underneath that Tweet are overwhelmingly outraged