...to ask why the NHS funds IVF?

[moofeatures]

I promise I'm neither an (intentionally) goady fucker, nor Katie Hopkins.

But.

Following on from a recent thread about there being a perception that public money grows on trees, I'd like to ask your stance on the NHS funding IVF.

Now, before I get flamed for my insensitivity, let me explain that I myself was diagnosed with ovarian failure in my 20s. I am still of an age where I'd meet the criteria for NHS IVF funding, which would be my only way to have a biological child. I initially grieved for this as I always assumed I'd be pregnant one day, but also from day 1 of my diagnosis I've felt that artificial reproductive hormone therapy/IUI/IVF falls outside the remit of what the NHS should provide as it serves no medically therapeutic purpose.

The logical response to my argument is: "if the only option for IVF is to privately fund, then you're depriving less affluent people the chance to become parents", which is both true and a shame... but is it the NHS's problem? Really, it's the infertility which took away that choice - and it is a choice, not a right... at least in my opinion.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

IMBU I appreciate that, thank you. It has literally made my blood boil! These progynova tablets and cyclogest pessaries i’m taking are sending me over the edge

I've seen ladies several who have previously had 3+ terminations and have then come back a few years later asking for fertility treatment as they can't get pregnant. One girl had had 6!

Firstly, this has to be very, very rare as bananafish has said. Secondly, so what? If you have an abortion - or even multiple ones - you give up your right to be devastated by infertility? So if, for instance, you were in an abusive relationship and got pregnant you forfeit any right to future fertility treatment that you may or may not need to you if you decide that you can't continue that pregnancy at that time?

Lady Lucille me too. The worst ones I’ve come across are in the comments section of articles written about IVF on the DM. I know I shouldn’t read them but I do and I get so angry at the shear heartlessness of some of the commenters. It’s made me wonder if anyone I know in real like share such views. I sincerely hope not.

• real life

IMBU don’t read anything on the Dm, there was a story about my brother in it at the comments were just heartless, honestly think they are just trolls on that who all live in a perfect life bubble.
I’m a mother, and though I conceived mine naturally it upsets me that other women who are also mothers are not behind those who struggle to conceive, women should be behind our fellow gender and encourage and back them, not turn their backs on them and be hurtful and nasty.

Thank you, @SerenDippitty it was really difficult but for me, it was important to try. If we hadn't, I would always have wondered whether it would have worked. It gave me closure, in that it was clear there was no point in trying again.

With so many children waiting to be adopted, I don’t think the NHS should fund IVF.

Petitepamplemoouse please read the thread or do some research. Adoption is a minefield and your snippy post would suggest you’re not particularly well informed on the process.

With so many children waiting to be adopted, I don’t think the NHS should fund IVF.

With so many children waiting to be adopted, people shouldn’t get pregnant.

Adoption can be amazing in the right circumstances but it’s a very difficult path to take. Spouting glib stuff like this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how adoption works.

This thread makes me feel stressed and a bit sick too. There is so much ignorance that I’d need an essay to address it. Ignorance about the principles of access to, and funding of the nhs, ignorance about the existence of NICE and how decision making on treatment/funding is made, ignorance about fertility treatment as a broader area of medicine of which ivf is a subset. Ignorance around what a treatment costs and what it involves. Ignorance around adoption. Ignorance around eligibility criteria and pre-screening. Ignorance around ‘success’ rates for ANY medical treatment. Ignorance around being childless NOT through choice. Ignorance of what a hard and lonely experience it is.

With so many children waiting to be adopted, I don’t think the NHS should fund IVF.

How many children have you adopted?

Adoption is about finding parents for children, not children for infertile couples

Have you bothered to read the thread about many reasons why infertile couples may not be approved to adopt full stop?

Very very strong stable parents with great support networks who are able to cope with very complex needs are the answer to adopted children.

The children most likely in need of homes are often disabled children and sibling groups. They will likely have suffered years of abuse and neglect. They are likely to be traumatised, with lifetime issues. They will almost certainly have attachment disorder.

A couple who has not been able to have any children of their own might be ill equipped to deal with children who fit into these categories, so many adoption agencies may hesitate.

Oh and just as I am typing along cake Petitepamplemouse to evidence my point.

BTW to all my fellow infertiles, I'm writing a book about the shiteness that is long term infertility, and there's a chapter all about dealing with the insensitivity and ignorance that surround infertile.

I want to celebrate the amazing community of women who support each other through a living hell, to give a voice to those of us amongst the 1 in 7 couples who experience infertility whose journeys are longer, more challenging and less successful than others - and for us to know that we're not alone.

This thread has been gold dust for infertility bingo.

I can see why people would think 'you want a child and there are children who need parents , so put them together and voila problem solved” but it really, really isn't that simple. And only people with zero experience of either infertility or the adoption system would think that it is.

There are other things it funds that I am a lot more incredulous about, cosmetic things, shortcuts for no willpower.
Some people are so moved by others' struggles with infertility they become donors and surrogates, not resenting giving a portion of our tax money is a tiny drop of empathy in comparison.

With so many children waiting to be adopted, I don’t think the NHS should fund IVF.

Oh God not this shit again.

"Why did the OP pick on such an emotive area like IVF when there are so many other non-life saving treatments that are funded on the NHS?" (@IMBU)

You're right, and I'm sorry. This is the service I chose to ask about because it's the one most relevant to me right now. Sports injuries have never been a problem for me

This thread has been a real eye opener, and (amongst other things) makes me think that I've got a long time of grieving/accepting my diagnosis before the full rawness of it hits me.

Thank you for everyone who's shared their stories. I have huge respect for you all.

I must be growing up - I'm not even attempting to RFTF, knowing it'd depress the hell out of me.

Just to join what others have said re. the adoption issue. DH and I both have longterm health issues (which will not heal and have potential to get worse at times), and no wider family around us, and no extensive experience with children (the last granted could be overcome). None of these would be an issue for us having biological children, but we'd be laughed out from attempting to adopt.

Banana I really enjoy your posts and I think you write with great clarity and humour about a really emotive, upsetting topic.

Maybe before we all harp on about the NHS and funding 'lifestyle choices' we should think about how much stamp Banana et al have paid so our children can
-be born
-receive NHS care despite paying nothing in, as they are babies
-be vaccinated
-be educated
-sit public exams
-access child tax credits
-use libraries
-get 15hr a week free child care

I could go on and on but what's the point. As an NHS employee I don't think the NHS is financially lacking at all. It's a gross mismanagement of public funds that is the problem.

I am infertile, I am also adopted. I would never adopt as I know that it is in no way a fairytale ending for the children and adults involved and I have no desire to go through it again from the opposite side. I wasn't even abused or neglected and I had contact with a lot of my birth family, but the dysfunction it was all built upon was hideous to deal with, especially as a teenager. People who think adoption is the option for infertile couples are spectacularly ignorant and patronising.

As for the poster who said we should 'give a higher status to childless couples' WTF are you on about? My status is just fine, thank you. I've never had anyone imply my life is sad or has no status and they would have got a right rollicking if they did. I've come out the other side of infertility and I have no problem with being childless. I have a lovely life and I'm pretty sure plenty of people would like my 'status'. However, I do know that there are other childless people find it much harder to adapt to a life without children and the thoughtlessness and patronising garbage spouted by people who have no idea what it is to feel like that is quite breathtaking.

My sister died very young of cancer, she was in her early twenties. She was given hideously strong chemo that prolonged her life for about eighteen months. The quality of her life was pretty poor during that time though as it revolved around treatment, tests and....well....cancer. The doctors knew pretty early on that there was very little chance of her surviving but she went through the horror of it all for the vaguest chance she might survive. Was it ethical to do that? Was it a good use of 'resources' - I really don't know. I had to watch her suffer through it so I may be biased about it all though. At what point do we not prescribe drugs to people. Is a 5% chance worth it? How about 10%? What if the person is an important scientist who may do great work if they can just live a little longer? What if they're a drug addict who never works but whose family love them despite that, are they worth saving when the chance is only 20%? When we get into the ethics of who is treated we stray into very dangerous territory.

"Because infertility is a medical condition. Simple as that"

It's not that simple though-if it was that simple, we would keep funding endless cycles of IVF (and donated eggs and surrogacy) until the childlessness was resolved. We don't-we ration care, only provide a certain number of cycles, there are criteria such as age etc.

I'm in favor of a reasonable level of NHS funding for IVF, just emphasizing that it is inherently quite a messy issue and not "simple" at all.

Dontmentionthewar - thank you for that fantastic post. I am so sorry for the loss of your sister.

For those who have been diagnosed infertile but state they won't use NHS resources for IVF, I can only assume your desire for children is not as great as many others.

I absolutely believe the NHS should fund IVF, fairly across the whole country. We need to vote in a party who care for humans and want equality, rather than the greedy horrors we have in at the moment. And get the NHS running a lot better - yes, fine people who miss appointments, stop sending letters by post when a text or email is cheaper and more efficient anyway, lots and lots of ways they are frittering money away needlessly. Reassess what people can get free on prescription - it all adds up.

for those who have not managed to get their baby, and for those still trying and hoping.

Thank you so much @TipsNotHacks. Thank you also to @kikisparks for the flowers following my earlier post.

I keep thinking about this thread.

The single, hardest part of IVF for me was having to tell my husband that it hadn't worked. That was the absolute worst moment of my marriage. That was worse than getting our diagnosis.

I knew it was our only good chance. After that chance of IVF (I was 24 when I had my first cycle), I knew that during the time it would take to save the money for our next round that my subfertility would massively decline and the chances of success would be even lower.

Because of the limited funding, I knew that it wasn't just me telling my husband that the cycle hadn't worked, it was me telling my husband that we were unlikely to ever have a child.

We have had no further NHS funding, but have spent thousands privately investigating the diagnosis further with hope of finding ways to improve our chances for further rounds.

I've read the posts about finding fulfilment in other ways. About a year ago, I genuinely thought I'd made peace with where we were; I started a new degree course, we started carving a new life for us, but a year on and that emptiness is creeping back in.

I wish, I genuinely wish, I could find fulfilment in other ways but I personally can't yet. What really, really sucks is that I know my husband would, unequivocally, be a fantastic Dad.

I can't imagine my life when I'm 80 years old, without that next generation with me. That just isn't a life I want to see.

We wrote a blog about IVF when we were going through it, but without appropriate funding, I don't think it will ever see a truly happy ending.