...to ask why the NHS funds IVF?

[moofeatures]

I promise I'm neither an (intentionally) goady fucker, nor Katie Hopkins.

But.

Following on from a recent thread about there being a perception that public money grows on trees, I'd like to ask your stance on the NHS funding IVF.

Now, before I get flamed for my insensitivity, let me explain that I myself was diagnosed with ovarian failure in my 20s. I am still of an age where I'd meet the criteria for NHS IVF funding, which would be my only way to have a biological child. I initially grieved for this as I always assumed I'd be pregnant one day, but also from day 1 of my diagnosis I've felt that artificial reproductive hormone therapy/IUI/IVF falls outside the remit of what the NHS should provide as it serves no medically therapeutic purpose.

The logical response to my argument is: "if the only option for IVF is to privately fund, then you're depriving less affluent people the chance to become parents", which is both true and a shame... but is it the NHS's problem? Really, it's the infertility which took away that choice - and it is a choice, not a right... at least in my opinion.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

I don’t see why anyone would be shocked that if they had multiple terminations they might have trouble conceiving and possibly be infertile in the future.

Why? They clearly have had the ability to conceive?

Unless they have ashermans syndrome from repeated ERPC, or developed PID from a womb infection, why would repeat terminations render them infertile?

Most of us who are infertile have defective reproductive systems in some way - either us or with our partners. Problems ovulating, tubes, fibroids, endometriosis, high uterine Nk cells, thrombophilia, other reproductive immunological issues, genetic issues like balanced translocations - we can't get or stay pregnant because there's something that doesn't work.

I'm not sure I understand how physiologically that would work - would be grateful if someone could explain

I don’t agree with it especially as somone who has fribroids and also for people who already have children

Saving lives is more important.

I had my cruciate ligament reconstructed on the NHS

That wasn’t life saving, and didn’t cause me mental anguish. I just couldn’t play sport until I had it done.

The NHS doesn’t just save lives.

I think it’s like running a house priorities
You wouldn’t buy a new car if you haven’t paid your mortgage

IVF while people can’t get treatment for very basic care

Having children is not a need either it’s a want

From what I understand, a couple (woman under 35 or 36) can have three goes of IVF on the NHS. After that it's down to them to find the cash. Presumably if both are working they can put money aside for that.

Not enough status is given to childless people, I wish there was more promotion of them because they are able to achieve things that people with children find very difficult if not impossible. If someone cannot have children they can take on other responsibilities and have a fulfilled life.

Well obviously the nhs does other stuff than saving lives.

I would also put non life saving stuff such as ligament repairs, hernia repairs, mending broken bones, etc above IVF in the importance stakes.

As far as I’m aware cruciate ligament repairs aren’t limited due to funding? If I’m wrong on that I’m sorry. But I do know that some cancer treatments aren’t funded which I guess is why I mentioned life saving treatments being more important. If we can’t fund that then I don’t see how we can fund ivf.

IVF while people can’t get treatment for very basic care

Missed appointments cost the NHS £160m a year

How about we fine people for that, make people buy paracetamol rather than get it on prescription before insisting people pay for something that is one of the defining characteristics of being a living being?

Having children is not a need either it’s a want

So, we should disband NHS maternity services altogether and everyone should pay if they want children?

If we can’t fund that then I don’t see how we can fund ivf.

I’d rather IVF was funded than unnecessary cruciate ligament reconstructions

And I say that as someone who adopted twice rather than attempted IVF

(And I lied just then about having ACL reconstruction on the NHS. I had it done privately. But friends of mine did have it done on the NHS).

I would also put non life saving stuff such as ligament repairs, hernia repairs, mending broken bones, etc above IVF in the importance stakes

Do you have birth children?

From what I understand, a couple (woman under 35 or 36) can have three goes of IVF on the NHS.

Almost no CCGs in the country offer the full 3 cycles recommended by NICE. Many offer none at all. Postcode lottery

Fertility Fairness websitee*

I haven’t read all of this. It’s making me far too angry and I simply can’t be arsed. I don’t need the stress. I had my embryo transferred yesterday and need to chill out.

Of course it should be fucking funded. The mental anguish it causes is hell on earth. It’s absolute torture. Infertility is a medical problem. Something isn’t working as it should.

I say this as a private patient by the way. I get no funding. Never have.

Infertility is an important issue. It destroys lives. God forbid the poor bastards suffering from it might get a helping hand.

The NHS is on its arse, yes. Thanks to Jeremy Hunt and those cunts who run this Country. The answer is not to cut IVF funding.

Having children is not a need either it’s a want

So no maternity provision or child benefit or child tax credits then? Given children are a lifestyle choice.

@ladylucille. Yes I do have a birth child and no I didn’t need IVF. Doesn’t mean that my opinion doesn’t count. I also saw my dad die from cancer because the nhs wouldn’t fund his treatment.

Many treatments, antidepressants etc are not that effective. Nhs wastes loads of money on tests, bed blocking, red tape etc
IVF is a treatment for a medical condition. Welfare state is free at point of need, we all pay taxes, we can all have NHS care, education and other services when needed. May never need any, may need loads.
Why are people so judgy? Plenty of money for wars, security at royal weddings... this is a rich country, just not equitable.

How common is that? If someone can get pregnant multiple times, and have multiple terminations (so presumably unplanned pregnancies and not deliberately TTC) then they are pretty fertile! Unless they've developed PID from an STI then that seems quite astonishing to have gone from multiple unplanned pregnancies to then inability to conceive after 2 years of TTC. Unless it's that their previous pregnancies were with different partners and their current partners have male factor infertility?

Admittedly not common - I've seen 4 or 5 cases in 4 years. A couple of them had caught Chlamydia and developed PID, a few unexplained but with a different partner. 1 I remember who I think only had 2 terminations in late teens, was still with same partner and had come back in late 20's unable to conceive. That must've felt horrible

*ladylucille. Yes I do have a birth child and no I didn’t need IVF. Doesn’t mean that my opinion doesn’t count. I also saw my dad die from cancer because the nhs wouldn’t fund his treatment.

I’m sorry to hear that and I can’t imagine what that must have been like.

And of course your opinion counts.

Why single out IVF as the thing the NHS shouldn’t fund though? Rather than, say, drugs that are available at supermarkets incredibly cheaply? Or breast reconstruction surgery after cancer? Or viagra?

Why did the OP pick on such an emotive area like IVF when there are so many other non-life saving treatments that are funded on the NHS? Infertility is an illness because your body is not working in the way it should. Infertility has huge knock on implications for people who suffer from it. Implications on mental health in particular. I tried counselling it did not help me in the slightest. The only way I was going to escape my misery was to have my very much longed for baby and thank god I was able to fund the treatment that enabled me to fall pregnant with him. Had I not been able to afford that treatment and needed the NHS to fund that cycle of IVF then there are some people who have commented on here who would rather I didn’t have that treatment on the NHS, that my little boy was never born and for me to just deal with that misery for the rest of my life. Again I ask why IVF? There are so many other treatments that the OP could have picked.

HRTFT as at work and don't have time ,(workimg tonight in nhs as it goes but it's my break,) - I see both sides but we need to remember that we have a falling birth rate and a rising elderly population. Basically we need all the bodies we can get to care for the next generation (us,) so IVF is not necessarily a wasted cause. Also- people made infertile through e.g. cancer treatment need the best care/treatment and u don't perfect that until you have done 1000s of ivfs- otherwise you will be paying staff to sit around doing half a days work.
so I think it should be funded.

if women who cant have kids naturally are desperate to have them, then who are we to deprive them of that right? The nhs funds cosmetic surgery such as breast enlargements (not meaning reconstruction) don’t yiu think the nhs should scrap that procedure first? And think of the money saved if they stop prescribing paracetamol when it can be bought for a pound out supermarkets. Infertility is a medical condition, and should be treated as such on the nhs.

Not enough status is given to childless people, I wish there was more promotion of them because they are able to achieve things that people with children find very difficult if not impossible. If someone cannot have children they can take on other responsibilities and have a fulfilled life.

Agreed.

Villagefete I wish you all the very best and hope your treatment is successful. I would advise you stay away from threads like these. I found reading certain opinions on IVF very distressing and hurtful and avoided them during treatment. Just accept that there will always be some people who simply don’t understand.

From the World Health Organisation

Infertility is “a disease of the reproductive system

Infertility generates disability (an impairment of function), and thus access to health care falls under the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disability.

Villagefete I wish you all the very best and hope your treatment is successful. I would advise you stay away from threads like these. I found reading certain opinions on IVF very distressing and hurtful and avoided them during treatment. Just accept that there will always be some people who simply don’t understand.

These threads drive me fucking crazy and as said previously... I adopted rather than attempt IVF (so am a saint in some people’s eyes, apparently) xx