Page 12 | Trigger warning: Germain Greer's opinion on rape...

LokiBear · 2018-06-03T08:36:21+00:00

I can't actually get my head around this. How can a woman think like this? I have two daughters and comments like hers frighten me. I teach consent to 15 year olds and this goes against everything I try to teach them. I just dont get how anyone can think like this. https://news.sky.com/story/germaine-greer-says-most-rape-is-bad-sex-not-violent-crime-11390855

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:36

I agree - sexual behavior without full consent or something. "unconsented to sexual activity by someone known to the victim

We already have words for those things.

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 09:36

Ah, ok. So we’re just back to ‘everyone discussing this is a rape apologist’.

Most people do believe that being raped by someone you know is a lesser crime than being raped by a stranger in an alleyway, you’re not seriously denying that’s a fact? So we either accept that people feel that way and try to work with it (since changing their mind isn’t working) or we pretend that’s not true and everything stays exactly the same. Your neighbour walks away.

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 09:37

Also, it lowers the stakes for victims too. There may be victims who are not reporting because it's an ex husband or partner and they don't want them to go to prison for 5 years. The option of a lower tariff might encourage people to report in higher numbers.

Yes, exactly this.

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:39

Most people do believe that being raped by someone you know is a lesser crime than being raped by a stranger in an alleyway, you’re not seriously denying that’s a fact

I really am. The people who believe it is less of a crime to force your cock into someone because you know them are idiots. Irrespective of how many idiots there are out there (and I really don't think they constitute a majority) the law doesn't need to be changed to reflect that.

Being raped by someone you loved and trusted? Being raped by the next door neighbour? Being raped by your ex boyfriend? Being raped is being raped.

saiye06 · 04/06/2018 09:40

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Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:40

saiye06

I am not trolling you. I am, however, reporting you as a troll, because you clearly are trolling me.

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 09:42

Being raped by someone you loved and trusted? Being raped by the next door neighbour? Being raped by your ex boyfriend? Being raped is being raped.

I already know this.

You know too, a man coercing his wife into sex wouldn’t make it to a conviction under the current laws. He’s still a rapist, but he’s a rapist who got off with it.

So if you don’t believe that these idiots are the ones allowing rapists to walk free then who do you think is at fault? How can we change this?

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:43

Pumperthepumper

I don't necessarily think we can change it. That doesn't mean I will accept a trip back to 1954, where we accept marital rape and call it something other than rape.

saiye06 · 04/06/2018 09:44

Pumperthepumper

anyway

I have no issue with the policy in principle but I guess the real question here is whether it would actually work in practice? How could you change the rules without giving the perception that this rape is now being condoned?

There's the legal reality and then the perception. Is it ever possible to lower tariffs on crimes without negatively altering perception for potential victims?

saiye06 · 04/06/2018 09:46

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Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:48

saiye06

I am not even slightly trolling anyone. I haven't insulted you. I called your opinion revolting because it revolted me.

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 09:49

I don't necessarily think we can change it.

Ah, ok. That’s probably the end of the conversation for me and you then.

saiye06 · 04/06/2018 09:50

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Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:51

Pumperthepumper

So, actually, when you said you wanted to discuss GG's proposals, you didn't. What you want is for me to make a better suggestion, as if we have to accept any suggestion uncritically if we can't solve the issue ourselves. We don't.

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 09:53

I have no issue with the policy in principle but I guess the real question here is whether it would actually work in practice? How could you change the rules without giving the perception that this rape is now being condoned?

I know. I don’t think you could, as I said, it’s sickening to think about classifying rapes at all, I think any right-minded person has an immediate revulsion towards it as a concept But it’s just so tempting to want to do something. I also like the idea of the R branding. I think it would have to be something like ‘coercive rape’ as a separate crime (it might be already, I don’t know) - the word ‘rape’ still in the title but without the life sentence that I feel most people associate with back-alleyway-stranger rape.

Fflamingo · 04/06/2018 09:54

T Being raped is being raped
Don’t agree with this

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 09:55

So, actually, when you said you wanted to discuss GG's proposals, you didn't. What you want is for me to make a better suggestion, as if we have to accept any suggestion uncritically if we can't solve the issue ourselves. We don't.

Pengggwn I don’t know what this means either, and I’m tired of trying to find logic in your arguements when all you seem to want to do is tell people off. I want you to understand this is an issue and I want you to suggest anything other than GG’s proposal. You don’t want to do that, that’s your right of course, so I don’t know what else you want from me, or from this conversation.

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:56

Fflamingo

Why not?

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:56

Pumperthepumper

You do know what I want. I want - although of course you do not have to - for you to explain 1) Which rapes we shouldn't call rapes and 2) What we should call them.

nolongersurprised · 04/06/2018 09:57

How could lessening the severity of the crime lead to more convictions? I can see how it could potentially lead to more reporting but how would that lead to more men being prosecuted?

GG said that women may be more likely to be believed but I don’t understand how.
Many/most rapes are he said versus she said in terms of consent - how does GG’s approach lead to more men admitting what what they’ve done?

I’m neither trolling nor disingenuous and I agree that the current system is broken but I can’t see how lessening the severity of the punishment is going to help.

Fflamingo · 04/06/2018 09:57

Sorrry not providing more fodder for you 😀

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:57

Pumperthepumper

And also why.

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 09:58

Fflamingo

If your opinion is 'fodder', I suggest you think it all through again.

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 10:01

nolongersurprised I guess because it wouldn’t come with the ‘well, that’s HIS life ruined now’ backlash that comes with say CE or Brock Turner (? Might have got his name wrong, sorry) - if it was (I know this is horrible, sorry) a small prison sentence plus community service, it’s still an acknowledged of ‘yes, he did this. Yes, he is being punished’.

Pengggwn, I’m not copying and pasting the same response again. Read back to where I answered that last time, or stop addressing posts to me, your call.

Pluckedpencil · 04/06/2018 10:03

It is a new and interesting debate. I like the idea of finding a way to punish rape within relationships and the change in sentencing makes sense. But unfortunately (or fortunately!) most prosecutions call for evidence of a crime and witnesses, both of which are non existent in intrarelationship rape. Plus, I do worry the smallest connection to a victim would lead to reduced sentences in those brutal and random attacks.