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Trigger warning: Germain Greer's opinion on rape...

568 replies

LokiBear · 03/06/2018 09:36

I can't actually get my head around this. How can a woman think like this? I have two daughters and comments like hers frighten me. I teach consent to 15 year olds and this goes against everything I try to teach them. I just dont get how anyone can think like this.

news.sky.com/story/germaine-greer-says-most-rape-is-bad-sex-not-violent-crime-11390855

OP posts:
stopfuckingshoutingatme · 04/06/2018 06:46

Not RTWT

I think there is a rape and rape , shades of atrocity

I was ‘date raped’ and that cannot and should not be compared to the trauma experienced by a 14 year old dragged
Into a field

They are not the same and I don’t know how to word that as I have just woken up

Not all cases are the same and should be treated the same

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 06:56

Pumperthepumper

Ah yes. Those pesky people who want to 'dominate' the discussion by having an opinion. I hate those ones too! Hmm

You can move on to GG's proposal if you want to. Go on. What is she proposing?

(I honestly believed I was discussing her proposal, not 'word choice' - although I think 'word choices' form the basis of argument, so I don't see what is wrong with asking someone why they are using a specific word. Not sure I did that, anyway.)

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 06:58

Fflamingo

Laws need an ethical basis. Once we start allocating whatever tariffs we believe we will get away with, we don't have a justice system. Feeling sorry for someone, or believing others will, isn't a basis to relegate their offence.

samueledotericson · 04/06/2018 07:02

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samueledotericson · 04/06/2018 07:04

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RebelRogue · 04/06/2018 07:07

@samueledotericson if you don't know the numbers how can you use "false rape accusations " as an argument for anything?

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 07:07

samuel You could have just googled this yourself, but the estimate is less than 5% of reported rapes are thought to be false. Here’s a link for you if you want to do more reading:

www.google.co.uk/search?q=false+rape+statistics&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

How do you feel about the system we have just now for court convictions for rapes?

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 07:11

I can’t help but quote my godmother here bless her she says “I can’t ever be raped because I would enjoy it to much” I couldn’t believe it when she said it but that’s her free speech so, what can I say to her? she’s 70 years old

What can we say? Your nan sounds like a goer.

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 07:22

Not all cases are the same and should be treated the same

They're not treated the same. The rapist who abducted a 14 year old would serve a longer sentence than the rapist who raped someone on a date.

But they absolutely can and should be compared. The common factor in the two cases is that the sex was not consensual - it was rape.

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 07:27

You can move on to GG's proposal if you want to. Go on. What is she proposing?

She’s proposing that we try to increase the number of people who are convicted for rape. How do you think we can do that?

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 07:28

Pumperthepumper

She’s proposing that we try to increase the number of people who are convicted for rape. How do you think we can do that?

No, how does she think we can do that?

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 07:29

You are the one who wants to move on to discussing her proposal, so discuss it. Don't try turning it back on me.

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 07:36

pengggwn it’s been explained to you about fifteen times! I’m just going to c&p Curious’s post from the very first page, it’s an excellent summery of what GG is saying:

I've a sneaking suspcicion that, yet again, she was being provocative and made more sense inthe whole, rather than in sound bite!

A lot of this happens, social media, twitter etc promote the soundbite, people don't read/hear the whole message, the whole context. They hear a snippet and focus on that!

If you remember she is a deliberate provocateur and then look at everything she is reported to have said through this filter, what she said at the start, then some of those soundbites make more sense:

"“I want to turn the discourse about rape upside down. We are not getting anywhere approaching it down the tunnel of history"

For example the quote "“Every time a man rolls over on his exhausted wife and insists on enjoying his conjugal rights, he is raping her,” actually ends with her saying, in her 'resigned' voice “It will never end up in a court of law.” That isn't her saying that marital rape is right, that is her saying it is fcking difficult to prosecute!

And when she talks about rape not being a “spectacularly violent crime” but a “lazy, careless and insensitive.” act, she is saying that in the context of film rape. She references Tarantino rape scenes, women held down, brutalised. She is saying that, for most women that is not how they were raped their rape was much less violent, was more mundane. Normal sex, but without consent.

She is saying that we women do not have to internalise that brutality and see ourselves as having been victims of the most violent crime ever, we don't need to be destroyed by it. By insisting that rape, which often leaves very little incontravertable phsyical evidence and often comes down to he said, she said, is a highly violent crime we are making it very difficult to succesfully prosecute.

She says that where it's hard for lawyers to prove that the perpetrators truly did not have consent then, instead of humiliating trials we should punish rape less harshly but make it easier for women to push claims through

She also suggests that these 'mundane rapists' need to be tattooed wth a visible R and given community service - so they can be seen to be punished.

And that those rapists who are violent should be punished for that violence and the rape!

Her whole message is different from the soundbites. Her whole message is one I feel should be properly considered!

So pengggwn if you disagree with that, what’s your solution to fixing this problem? Or are you happy with the way things stand just now?

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 07:37

Plus, I already have discussed it. It sickens me that we can’t just all agree ‘rape is rape’ and have them locked up - but that system isn’t working. So maybe it’s time to try something else.

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 07:40

Pumperthepumper

Hold on. You challenge my post on the basis that you want to move on to discussing her proposal, now you're saying you have already discussed it and implying I am an idiot...

I am getting the impression that what you don't enjoy is anyone challenging the ideas that you think are self-evidently correct. Well, don't worry. Just ignore me if you don't like what I have to say.

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 07:43

She says that where it's hard for lawyers to prove that the perpetrators truly did not have consent then, instead of humiliating trials we should punish rape less harshly but make it easier for women to push claims through

And - in spite of the long discussion that has been had here - I remain confused about a) exactly what is being proposed and b) how it would help to redefine rape where it is hard to prove that a rape occurred. Surely if it is hard to prove, it's hard to prove. There is either evidence or there isn't. How does making the tarrif less help? And what would we call it?

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 07:52

Hold on. You challenge my post on the basis that you want to move on to discussing her proposal, now you're saying you have already discussed it and implying I am an idiot...

WTF? I have discussed it - you have spent the whole thread accusing people of being rape apologists. And here we are again - another arguementative post with no acknowledgement AGAIN of the question I put to you, because that’s all you have to offer here.

It’s not that I don’t like what you have to say - you aren’t saying anything new! You aren’t saying anything that adds to this thread, you’re just continually telling people off.

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 07:55

Pumperthepumper

Lovely misrepresentation of what happened. You said you wanted to discuss her proposal. Let's do that. Exactly what is she proposing?

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 07:58

pengggwyn again, she is proposing ways we could improve conviction rates for rape.

Fflamingo · 04/06/2018 07:59

Isn’t there often the accusers evidence and the possible perpetrators evidence. Conflicting so do these never get to court Pengwwyn due to lack of evidence? (Physical evidence too of course but no witnesses to the act )

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 08:14

Pumperthepumper

By?

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 08:14

Fflamingo

Obviously, but what I want to know is how you think this will help with that.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 04/06/2018 08:21

Isn’t she rather saying that what we often regard as bad sex is in fact rape rather than rape is bad sex?

Pumperthepumper · 04/06/2018 08:22

pengggwyn again: we should punish rape less harshly but make it easier for women to push claims through

So that’s the bit you disagree with, what’s your solution? Or should we keep it the same?

Pengggwn · 04/06/2018 08:22

DrinkFeck

“Instead of thinking of rape as a spectacularly violent crime, and some rapes are, think about it as non consensual … that is bad sex

Her words. How do you manage to infer the opposite from them?

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