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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Bought a print I love, DH is worried it's racist

999 replies

NC4T · 31/05/2018 21:12

Saw it on IG and loved it. Purchased it for the laundry room corridor, but it's arrived and DH is a little worried it might be racist. I can't see how. To me, it's a mum finding a few minutes of calm in the chaos and I love her babies little sleeping face.

We are white Jewish, for cultural context.

What do you think?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Battleax · 02/06/2018 22:24

The illustrations are made from reference photos provided by her.

I’m just trying to imagine the conversation in which I explain to DH or friend that I would like them to photograph me naked engaged in housework and similar BlushConfused

QuackPorridgeBacon · 02/06/2018 22:25

Why would it be a ruse? Glad to hear that the print isn’t racist and was requested by a black woman. Guess the artist isn’t racist and seeing black people as lesser than herself. That’s good to know.

sleepingdragons · 02/06/2018 22:26

Was this thread a set up, then? Does the OP know the artist?

No, it was me, I emailed the artist (yesterday I think?) as I thought she'd find it interesting to read the discussions on her art.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 02/06/2018 22:27

Battleax I can agree with that. I don’t think I’d be comfortable requesting such a thing but glad this woman was and now has some lovely drawings for herself.

Battleax · 02/06/2018 22:32

Good that she’s happy.

sleepingdragons · 02/06/2018 22:34

@MarieJorgensen I hope you've found the discussions interesting.

Thank you so much for sharing the inspiration for your work with us .

Very interesting to hear the picture is of someone in real life.
So we were all wrong in the end!

Some background to Mumsnet, to put this thread in context.

Mumsnet is a massive website, with different boards, each with it's own feel. This board - "Am I being unreasonable" - does tend to attract people who like a fight fairly robust conversation, I hope you don't take some of the more critical comments too seriously, people do like to argue here.

For what it's worth, I've been here 10 years and have never seen a discussion like this, people are even talking about setting up a new thread or area on the site to discuss art, and if that happens we'll have you to thank for bringing discussion of art to MN.

Thank you :)

sleepingdragons · 02/06/2018 22:37

Did anyone suggest the image might be a portrait?

I don't think anyone did, we were all wrong then aren't we! Grin

TheDowagerCuntess · 02/06/2018 22:48

Dowager, is it the norm to see well educated Māori women in the workplace and on an equal footing to yourself?

Of course, which is why I wouldn't want to misappropriate/offend anyone.

Why?

SmileEachDay · 02/06/2018 23:12

@MarieJorgensen

I hope you haven't been upset by the posts

I imagine she’s delighted, as it has generated lots of free advertising.

Why would it be a ruse? Glad to hear that the print isn’t racist and was requested by a black woman. Guess the artist isn’t racist and seeing black people as lesser than herself. That’s good to know

It’s great that the artist isn’t racist. That doesn’t stop the image being perceived as problematic by the viewer. As soon as any art is public, the intentions of the artist cease to be the sole deciding factor.,

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 00:52

@MarieJorgensen

If the illustration was commissioned by an individual, how come it is now for sale commercially to anyone who wants to buy it?

Did the various hot buttons you pressed in your illustration never once strike you?

Duck90 · 03/06/2018 00:55

To be fair, I have read this thread as AIBU to put this picture in my utility hall. Not is the artist a racist! As a random picture in someone’s house it will remain a questionable picture. Unless a description is written underneath.

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 00:57

And of course a print can be racist, and an artist can be racist even if that artist doesn't think she is being racist in her art. Intentions do not matter.

Nobody is completely free from the privilege or assumptions about other people that come with their background.

sleepingdragons · 03/06/2018 01:21

mathanxiety the artist has bothered to come on here and answer our questions, she's not a troll FFS, please don't treat her like one.

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 01:37

Ah, you are in America. Massive cultural differences.
I am aware of cultural differences. They are not as massive as you think they are, and they are especially not as massive when it comes to race as you may fondly imagine.

I found it funny because it seemed like you were doing whatever the race equivalent of mansplaining is.
Well you are in for a little surprise then...

I wouldn’t think twice about hanging the picture. I also live in a multi cultural area, and while I haven’t formally studied race issues, I consider myself reasonably educated about them, mainly becuase I find history interesting and particularly I like to know what happened and why people can’t just get on.
So your own personal feelings on what is or isn't racist trump actual study of the very troubling history of race relations, including race portrayals in media and advertising, and finding history 'interesting' is a mark of expertise of some kind? And you would like to know what happened and why people 'can't just get on'?
Mind boggling.

I don’t think it would be easy for Americans to understand the utterly different attitudes to nudity in parts of Europe. Most British people don’t. In the context of the artist being Danish, female and body positivity being her thing I really don’t think there is anything gratuitous about the nudity.
As an Irish person mistaken here for an American, I am enjoying this mansplaining about 'European attitudes to nudity' a lot.
The nakedness while black really is gratuitous. Women don't usually do laundry naked any more than women usually spend time draped over cars while partially naked.
Black women in popular culture are hyper sexualised and portrayed as symbols of sex in ways that many of them find incredibly demeaning. You choose to completely ignore the fact that this naked woman is black, and that is a pity because understanding why this is problematic might give you some clues as to the operation of the power relationship between white and black that makes it so difficult to 'get along'.

As for why she did a picture of a black woman, who knows, maybe it’s one of her yoga students. I really personally feel you are reading too much into this picture. I don’t think any of the black women I know would see this picture as exploitative or in poor taste. I think things are different in America, I wouldn’t say it’s perfect here, but we didn’t have segregation in the same way and maybe that is part of the difference, I think also British people don’t take things quite so seriously as Americans (sorry for generalising!)
'I wouldn't say it's perfect here' is the understatement of the year. There is rampant segregation in the UK. On top of that there is the very rigid class system. The funny side of a depiction of a naked black woman wearing a baby and leaning on a washing machine reading would be completely lost on my lovely former neighbour, an operatic soprano and voice teacher with an Ivy League degree who was often assumed to be her children's nanny when they were out and about (her H is white). This print would elicit a sense of despair in her.

The artist has given a very general description of the impetus behind her art in general, and an explanation of how this particular print came about, but no indication at all of why she thought this particular print would be immune from the context of the portrayal in popular culture of black women, of naked black women, of black women doing domestic chores, of black women doing something traditionally African juxtaposed with an item that is a direct translation of Pear's soap from ads of yore.

FYI:

"Black women in popular culture: jezebel, mammy and sassy sidekick" The problem with one-note stereotyping, and an assertion that media plays a part in forming our view of life even if we do not think it does.
mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 01:39

I am not treating her as a troll.

I have questions that I believe are pertinent.

LassWiADelicateAir · 03/06/2018 02:26

mathanxiety

Your posts have very eloquently expressed my concerns about this picture.

Battleax · 03/06/2018 03:06

mathanxiety the artist has bothered to come on here and answer our questions, she's not a troll FFS, please don't treat her like one.

Sorry?

You invited her on to the thread of your own volition (and then started frantically brown nosing her.) The cartoon exists as a stand-alone entity.

Don’t you understand math’s points about that?

LassWiADelicateAir · 03/06/2018 03:13

I thought Math raised very pertinent points.

imweirdandcool · 03/06/2018 04:08

It's not op

lljkk · 03/06/2018 05:47

There's nothing about the print that suggests that skin tone is really dirt that can be washed away with a good soap. Confused

This thread reminds me why Hollywood films rarely casts non-white actors as the villains or interesting characters in films: always afraid of any hint of negative associations or stereotyping linked to their non-white race. This means white actors can take any role, but non-whites aren't even offered them. Ultimately, the effort to avoid any hint of racism about non-whites in fiction leads to real world economic disadvantage for the same community.

I can't agree that it's wrong to depict naked or laundry-doing or baby-carrying black women, just in case someone wants to see those universal-human things thru lens of bigotry.

BiscuitsRule · 03/06/2018 07:46

This thread reminds me why Hollywood films rarely casts non-white actors as the villains

You must not have watched many films Hmm.

WallisWindsor · 03/06/2018 07:57

mathanxiety

Thank you!

GreenMeerkat · 03/06/2018 08:00

I don't like it because to me it's a little sexist. Not racist though.

mathanxiety · 03/06/2018 08:03

I am not sure you can avoid the association of cleaning blackness away when the image features a juxtaposition of a traditional African cultural icon with a modern western cleaning appliance. It's just too close to those old ads for comfort, and very jarring.

No matter what the intent of the artist, the historical baggage is there and to suggest that this can be ignored is naive.

petrolpump28 · 03/06/2018 08:05

I'm not sure this isn't some kind of weird wind up? Why has the op given us her ethnicity and class? If the work was commissioned, why is it sold as a print? Why are people naked in a cold country? 😀