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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the police let people down?!

119 replies

hattiesmumm · 31/05/2018 06:38

Last night a friend of mine who lives a few doors down was beaten up by her husband. He’s always been abusive. He has a name for himself as a “hard man” in town, and no one would mess with him. They have two small children who are best friends with my two.

Anyway it was kicking off with him screaming at her, and the babies screaming at him to stop/stop shouting and generally crying. It was fucking awful. I could hear it in my bedroom with my fan on. I looked out the window and saw the oldest daughter (5) run across the road to the neighbor and ask for help. That’s when I rang the police. It took them over an hour to turn up. By then my friend and her kids had drove off. I tried numerous times to get her into my house but understandably she wanted to get away. Iv texted her and rang her and she’s safe, but she said the man hurt their youngest child.

I feel physically sick.

The police turned up, went and spoke to him and then left laughing and joking with him.

I don’t know what to do. I haven’t slept being worried.

OP posts:
OohMavis · 31/05/2018 09:20

Im happy to vote conservative and we happy with the Police. Yes they are under resourced and have to prioritise jobs.

Oh, well that's ok then.

BlueJava · 31/05/2018 09:22

I think keirenthecommunity has a really good point. Just because the police got him in the car quietly and it all appeared to be in good humour it doesn't mean they were actually viewing him as a "good bloke". The punishment starts when it's imposed by the courts after a trial. Obviously if the police turned up and started using generally bullying behaviour it would be wrong - it's not their place to punish, only see that crimes are tried with a punishment dished out by a judge. They also have to gather evidence and without speaking to the woman/witnesses they don't have any way of knowing what's happened.

Fatted · 31/05/2018 09:23

I would happily invite everyone who is complaining about response times for police and ambulance to go and do a shift with them.

I do agree waiting times are not acceptable. But the unfortunate reality is that there are limited resources available and decisions are often having to be made between which emergency they should attend to first. If it's not an emergency, then they probably won't get there.

If you are not happy with this then lobby your local police commissioner and your local MP. Do something realistic about it instead of complaining on the internet that it's unacceptable.

Maelstrop · 31/05/2018 09:32

Ffs, you clearly have no idea.

I’m sorry your friend is in such an abusive relationship, I know it’s hard to leave.

However, last night, there were 4 officers covering a population of 110 000 people, stretching over 15 miles. Not all of these officers have the qualification to put on sirens/blue lights. Once they arrest one person, one drives, one sits with the prisoner in the back and coveys them to custody. Unfortunately, local custody and not so local custody have been closed (and turned into flats!) so the journey could be up to 15 miles. Custody takes hours.

None of this is the officer’s fault. It’s government cuts. Apparently no more than 4 officers are needed, despite most dv incidences occurring at night.

The officers were likely aware of the character of this guy, he’s probably got a violence marker on the address. They are not going to go in there and wind him up any further when there’s probably only 2 of them. HTH.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 31/05/2018 09:36

I'm happy to vote conservatives and we're happy with the police. Yes they are under resourced and have to prioritise jobs.

So a women with 2 kids not a high priority.
Still as long as you and your Tory mates are alright, Jack. It's all fine and dandy

AnotherOriginalUsername · 31/05/2018 09:40

Think the saddest thing about the Conservatives and their cuts is that they were founded by Robert Peel

bastardkitty · 31/05/2018 09:44

There is both a ridiculous level of underfunding in the police force and other public services (nice victim-blaming by smug Tory) and a cultural problem in the police force in relation to taking domestic violence seriously. I know lots of work is being done around this, but it's still a massive issue.

StayingAtTamaras · 31/05/2018 09:49

@ShatnersWig I don't disagree with you atall, it's best not to go in all guns blazing and i'm not slating the police however I didn't think it was nice to say you found it hard to believe!

ShatnersWig · 31/05/2018 09:55

@Staying Was because I misread it totally - hadn't spotted the friend was no longer there and I read it that the police hadn't taken him away anyway, just that they'd been laughing and joking with him.

kierenthecommunity · 31/05/2018 09:58

I read ‘with him’ as in they took him
with them but reading it back I could be wrong.

SoddingUnicorns · 31/05/2018 09:58

@kierenthecommunity actually they didn’t have a warrant and until I appeared at the top of the stairs were in the middle of insisting they didn’t need one. But thanks for that, I knew they needed a warrant. They did too and it’s in the hands of the complaints commission just now.

Buster72 · 31/05/2018 09:59

Wow it's Thursday and there is another police bashing thread. Happens almost weekly.
A few points.
If the victim has left then the immediate threat has lowered. Hence a slower response.
Once on scene did you or anyone else offer to make a statement against the male ? (Remember our victim is away so we have no evidence yet.) If you did not what grounds exist for arrest? None!.
It's not clear if the male left with the cops in a pally pally way or they were just pally pally before leaving ? But if you were that close to see and hear that then you could have put your head above the parapet and offered some evidence.
(Having been in car with a suspect who was fighting with me I agree a friendly approach is more appropriate.)

Buster72 · 31/05/2018 10:01

Actually more time is spent responding too and investigating domestic violence than anything else were I work.

Buster72 · 31/05/2018 10:02

Finally sentencing is down to courts not police.

SoddingUnicorns · 31/05/2018 10:04

Buster if you’re police then surely you know that not all officers do the job they should do? I’m not saying all, or even a majority, but you must know there are bad eggs in every force.

SoddingUnicorns · 31/05/2018 10:05

I agree with Buster about sentencing though, it’s not the police that set the guidelines for sentencing. And the courts do fail DV victims.

kierenthecommunity · 31/05/2018 10:09

They did too and it’s in the hands of the complaints commission just now.

There are some grounds under PACE where you can enter without one though but they’re pretty specific. So it’s not nailed down they need a warrant. Just depends what they were actually there for really

SoddingUnicorns · 31/05/2018 10:12

@kierenthecommunity they left after admitting they didn’t have a warrant or indeed any reason to be there. Under Scots Law “corroboration” (ie more than one person saying the same thing) is enough to apply for a warrant but not enough to enter a home without one. Hence the need to escalate the complaint.

As I said, not all cops are like that, but to pretend none are just isn’t true.

BabyBed · 31/05/2018 10:16

I read the criticism more as the Police as an institution (or give paymasters if you prefer) rather than blaming individual officers for a slow response, which I think is totally fair and justified given the circumstances. An analogy would be criticising the Church for not taking abuse seriously - doesn't mean the local vicar is in on it.

As services are cut it can be hard to know what to do, should we wait for help or try to sort things out ourselves? Are the police going to turn up quickly, or should a mother leave her child at home and save herself (assuming anger not directed at the child) for example? Should we wait for an ambulance or get a friend to drive us to hospital if we're bleeding? How do you judge what to do when you don't know how long it will take for help to come and you're in an incredibly stressful situation?

kierenthecommunity · 31/05/2018 10:18

Ah, I am no expert on Scottish law admittedly but I imagine it’s not that dissimilar to the English and Welsh rules in terms of needing a valid reason to enter

Buster72 · 31/05/2018 10:21

So is this a general "let's bash the cops" thread or one incident being discussed?
I was trying to offer some balance based upon my own experience.
I am perturbed that theses threads appear like clockwork on a Thursday....always about how police let people down around DA.
There was on a month or so back....claim police did not respond to domestic abuse which was roundly proved to be utter bollocks by posters....this seem to be written in a similar vein...

AllMYSmellySocks · 31/05/2018 10:27

OP is getting some pretty harsh responses here. A one hour wait is not acceptable for that kind of incident where children are in danger. I very much doubt the police were siting around eating donuts but this does demonstrate why the cuts to the police force are so dangerous. There just aren't enough resources to handle the demand.

In terms of the police leaving laughing and chatting that's understandably incredibly upsetting for OP. It's hard to make any kind of judgement on that without being there and knowing what happened. It does sound an unprofessional way to interact with a suspect - it should be made clear that he's been accused of a serious crime (although obviously he hasn't actually been found guilty of it yet). Again while it would obviously be upsetting for OP I think it's impossible for us to pass judgement on how the police handled it based only on 1 minute of the interaction that OP happened to overhear from her house.

Buster72 · 31/05/2018 10:30

Nobody accused him if anything.....no-one offered any evidence....

The children left with mom there was no immediate threat...

Would the OP have been satisfied if cops had thrown o few punches and bundled him into a van....only to be accused of assault and lost there own jobs and liberty...

SoddingUnicorns · 31/05/2018 10:40

@kierenthecommunity you’re right. They didn’t have a valid reason to enter, hence the complaint. Again, I know that it is not the norm, and that these officers massively broke the rules and indeed the purpose of their job. Hopefully they’ll be left in no doubt of that when the complaint is (hopefully) upheld.

kierenthecommunity · 31/05/2018 10:40

It does sound an unprofessional way to interact with a suspect - it should be made clear that he's been accused of a serious crime

The most professional way to deal with a suspect who’s being arrested (if indeed he was as it’s not 100% clear) is in a way where no one gets hurt. If that involves using a bit of banter then it’s better than him kicking off.

If the police were brawling with him and forcing him to the floor other people would say that’s heavy handed and an abuse of authority so it’s a bit damned if you do...

In an ideal world every detainee would be frog marched compliantly to a van in cuffs but it doesn’t always with that way

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