Unreasonable driver or deranged pedestrian? Over to the MN Jury

[woolythoughts]

I’ll try to keep it to the point – google picture attached of the actual section of road.

1. In a queue of traffic up the lights at the junction – nose to tail traffic
2. There is nothing on the road to indicate that it is a crossing of any sort nor are there any keep clear markings
3. A dropped kerb with an island does not in itself make a crossing

Was I unreasonable to draw the following:

Conclusion 1: There was no requirement for me to keep the road clear at the point of the dropped kerb

Conclusion 2: The woman who pushed her buggy into the side of my car, banged on the window and started effing and blinding about it being a crossing and having to leave space was off her head and I was justified in telling her to do one.

It would have been polite to leave a space for people to cross. Just courteous.

Both.

Her more because you weren't legally obliged etc and she overreacted by banging her buggy into your car and effing and blinding. I would think you blocking the crossing was the straw that broke the camel's back after extended sleep deprivation and probably running late for a doctor's appointment or something, hence really needing to get across the road. That's not your fault though.

It would have been the right thing to do to leave a gap given the layout of the road, it clearly is a formal crossing complete with street furniture though not the protected, legally enforceable kind. You didn't see it, which possibly means that you weren't paying attention to everything around as you have to in a busy urban area. That's minor as no harm done or laws broken, but by "telling her to do one" you forfit the moral high ground you had imo, depending on exactly what "telling her to do one" boils down to.

There is such a thing as common courtesy
It's clearly a crossing; leaving a space would not have slowed you down. Pulling eight up behind the car in front did not slow down your journey. It's like people who block side streets or entrances to businesses when queuing in traffic rather than leaving a gap for people coming the opposite direction to turn into the street. Just because there is no yellow box, does not mean it's ok to block up crossings and side roads. Always leave a space for other traffic to turn, and pedestrians to cross.

It's especially bad that you didn't notice it in slow moving traffic - what where you looking at that you didn't see a crossing island slowly approaching you.

*did not speed up your journey

I knew you were the driver just from the thread title

Am fucking sick to the back teeth of dozy inconsiderate drivers who prize their right to be a couple of feet further forward in stationary traffic over other road users and pedestrians. It’d almost be cute how cocooned in their own little bubble they seem to be if it wasn’t for the fact they’re in sole charge of a metal killing machine

Driver unreasonable - leave a gap. Law regardless it is obviously a crossing point; why make life harder for people? And as said, yes leave more room between cars, for your own sake if no one else's.

Pedestrian - reasonable to be annoyed and say something, unreasonable to shout and definitely wrong to bang on your car.

Even so you should realise that you were in the wrong here and have apologised.

I doubt many people keep islands clear when there aren't any pedestrians around. YANBU.

I feel sorry for her poor kids, she clearly has anger issues.

Passed my test last year and was taught that this type of island with studded hard standing opposite it on either pavement is known as a courtesy crossing, was new to me. So apparently as a driver you you use discretion i.e if road ahead of you is clear but there are pedestrians waiting to cross you are not obliged to stop and give way to them. However in standing traffic it would be common courtesy to leave it clear in the event of pedestrians wishing to cross so this is how I have treated them. The pedestrian in the OPs situation was BU for reacting as she did.

You are wrong to think it is not a crossing, but the pedestrian is wrong to think she has right of way.

My walk to the station includes quite a lot of crossings like this (with head to tail traffic on the road) and drivers tend not to leave gaps at the exact point of the dropped curve/island, nor would i expect them to, unless of course I am there first waiting to cross. Was she there first?

If they are stopped I just make eye contact with driver and walk around them in front of their car. I do often have a buggy with me as I drop DS off at nursery.

I was comng on to say that isn't a crossing, it's a pedestrain refuge, but SmashedMug beat me to it. They are there to help pedestrians cross wide roads in 2 stages. They are NOT crossings, the dropped kerbs are usually put there to help, and vehicles have priority.

So, yes, if you can leave a gap. But you don't have to!

Am fucking sick to the back teeth of dozy inconsiderate drivers who prize their right to be a couple of feet further forward in stationary traffic over other road users and pedestrians. It’d almost be cute how cocooned in their own little bubble they seem to be if it wasn’t for the fact they’re in sole charge of a metal killing machine

Hear, hear! a million times over.

So apparently as a driver you you use discretion

That presupposes you are aware of them to start with

As a driver you should always be alert to any possibility of a pedestrian launching themselves into the road anyway. A courtesy crossing would make it more likely this could happen, so you need to be more aware.

Hmm you're not obliged to leave a gap but I probably would have, it's a place to cross. They wbu hitting your car though and could have waited on the island.

www.trafficchoices.co.uk/traffic-schemes/refuge-island.shtml

The first in the list of disadvantages is There is no pedestrian priority. Motor vehicles have priority

One of many descriptions of them, lots on most council websites too!

YABU Those island are to make crossing the road easier and safer. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to be considerate of people needing to cross the road. What do you want people in wheelchairs or pushing buggies to do?...wait half an hour for a queue of traffic to clear?
Ridiculously selfish behaviour.

What do you mean there is nothing to indicate it's a crossing . There's a dirty great belish beacon on the island.You've conveniently cut the lamp offyour photo ,but the black and white striped pole is visible!

What are the dropped kerbs and differently textured pavement there for, if not to indicate it's a crossing?

Boo!

Just checking

What are the dropped kerbs and differently textured pavement there for, if not to indicate it's a crossing?

Is that what they're for ?

MN needs a facepalm smiley ....

clearly yanbu
particularly as the island was clear when you stopped there

Her - criminal - battering someone’s car. Even if you had been in the wrong, she has no right to batter your car.

Some people don’t really understand the rules of the road. This lady and several on this thread.

You are both unreasonable. You could have let her cross, as I imagine it would be hard to cross there, but she also didn't need to take out her aggression on you.

clearly a crossing, plain as day. You are correct that there is no priority for pedestrians, however if you are in near stationary traffic, why on earth not leave a gap, v. selfish IMO.

A lot of people with buggies are hideously entitled in the way the behave.

can i ask again - did you not see the belisha beacon!!

I guess you could have left a gap out of courtesy to pedestrians. But she was guilty of criminal damage. Hope your car isn't damaged. (And her baby)