Unreasonable driver or deranged pedestrian? Over to the MN Jury

[woolythoughts]

I’ll try to keep it to the point – google picture attached of the actual section of road.

1. In a queue of traffic up the lights at the junction – nose to tail traffic
2. There is nothing on the road to indicate that it is a crossing of any sort nor are there any keep clear markings
3. A dropped kerb with an island does not in itself make a crossing

Was I unreasonable to draw the following:

Conclusion 1: There was no requirement for me to keep the road clear at the point of the dropped kerb

Conclusion 2: The woman who pushed her buggy into the side of my car, banged on the window and started effing and blinding about it being a crossing and having to leave space was off her head and I was justified in telling her to do one.

I’d have left a space if she was waiting to cross or apologised to her for not doing so as she approached the crossing.

Its designed for people to cross although not a crossing as such

Sorry posted too soon,
However she was bvu for reacting that way.

Why would you not leave space for people to cross?! What do you honestly gain from an extra couple of feet?
Her actions were a bit OTT and she shouldn't have hit your car but as someone who frequently uses a buggy and find myself having to constantly take my dc out into the road because some inconsiderate cunt has blocked the pavement with their car, your inconsiderate behaviour would also give me the rage to be honest.

Yabu her I think.

If the traffic was nose to tail as you say to wouldn’t have got you anywhere you were going sooner. Her on the other hand has clearly had children to get somewhere, perhaps childminder or nursery and probably encounters people like you doing exactly what you did and today her patience has broke. She’s maybe had a tough morning getting the kids ready, or has a nightmare day ahead at work. It doesn’t justify her behaviour but nothing justifies yours either sat in your car blocking her path.

There are dropped curbs to allow crossing but that doesn't mean a pedestrian can cross regardless of what's on the road. The road was not clear and as this isn't a marked crossing they should have waited. You shouldn't park at the dropped kerb but sitting in traffic is different. Cars are caught in front of dropped kerbs all the time when sitting in traffic. There also a junction very close to the dropped kerb which shouldn't be blocked so how far back would OP realistically have had to have stopped?

Reposting due to typos.....

Today 13:34 Everytimeiseeher

Yabu here I think.

If the traffic was nose to tail as you say you wouldn’t have got anywhere you were going sooner. Her on the other hand has clearly had children to get somewhere, perhaps childminder or nursery and probably encounters people like you doing exactly what you did every day and today her patience has broke. She’s maybe had a tough morning getting the kids ready, or has a nightmare day ahead at work. It doesn’t justify her behaviour but nothing justifies yours either sat in your car blocking her path.

Unreasonable driver and deranged pedestrian.

The Highway Code rule 243 advises drivers that ‘Except when forced to do so by stationary traffic, DO NOT stop or park:
• where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles, or where it would obstruct cyclists

But although the traffic was stationary, you were in no way forced to stop by the dropped kerb rather than before you got to it. You stopped there because you didn't notice it; crossing points are potential hazard spots so you really should be aware of them.

I'm probably off beam here, but a general rule (from a copper) I was taught was "tyres on tarmac" - meaning you should be able to see the back wheels of the car in front of you when you stop.

Not only would this leave enough space for a pedestrian. It also gives you an escape route if needed. From the sinister (being carjacked), to the prosaic (in case the car in front breaks down).

Many years ago, I was stopped in a line of traffic - the last car. It was a filthy wet day, and I saw a car approaching in my mirror that clearly wasn't going to stop in time. I managed to ease out to the nearside (luckily no pedestrians) and they hit the car in front of me.

Driving doesn't stop when the car stops.

YABU. Swbu. Like you said, no legal obligation but under the circumstances it would be polite to leave a gap as it is a safe place to cross even if it's not 'a crossing'. Not like youre going anywhere of its nose to tale traffic anyway.

No way she should have been banging on your car though, that's totally rude, I'd have just thought you were a bit selfish is all. Like you said though, you didn't even notice it so not like you were being intentionally awkward.

Both unreasonable. Her reaction was dreadful, but it is a crossing.

At the risk of sounding like I 'm makign excuses:

1. She wasn't standing on the pavement when I stopped or I would have given way - it was as empty as in that picture

1. I thought telling her to do one was quite restrained given the provocation - I nearly regressed back to full on scouse* mode and met her screech for screech until I took a breath.

*Disclaimer: I am a scouser by birth and this happened near my mothers who I'm up visiting.

I would have assumed it was a crossing. You should have left a space.

My driving instructor would say you were too bloody close to the vehicle in front regardless if a buggy couldn't pass between!

Nose to tail traffic is the WORST for multiple shunts because people fail to leave even small gaps. Leave more space, crossing or no crossing.

There also a junction very close to the dropped kerb which shouldn't be blocked so how far back would OP realistically have had to have stopped?

As far back as was necessary. As pp have pointed out, it would have made no difference to her journey time, but leaving space for pedestrians to cross helps to make the roads safer for everyone.

If the traffic is nose to tail and no-one leaves a gap, how are pedestrians ever meant to get across?

It is 100% a crossing - that isn't just a dropped kerb - it looks like 'tactile paving' too? So that blind people know it is a crossing place. I'm not saying the woman's behaviour is acceptable but you need to be more road-aware. Also, you are far too close to the car in front if there wasn't enough room to get a buggy through.

Sorry to derail thread, but what even is a pelican crossing?!?!?

Doesn’t matter if someone is waiting to cross you still don’t block a drop kerb.

We've had similar happen to us. We have a very ordinary set of traffic lights at a crossroads with the long raisedtraffic calming humps. OH was moving forward on green, the the lights changed as we were on the hump.

Should of been no problem but someone in the opposite direction stopped and started giving OH verbal and a woman with a pushchair started moaning "how am I going to cross the road now".

I actually had to come home and check the score with these things as both were so adament we had blocked a crossing..They are traffic calming measures and are designed that shape so a car CAN sit on the top, but most people seem to think they are convinient crossings

I never automatically leave a space at a dropped crossing, but I will if there is someone waiting to cross UNLESS they can't cross anyway because they would have to cross another line of traffic to my right going the other way.

If, as you say, there were proper crossings a short distance both up and down the road she should have used those. That's what they are there for - to stop the traffic so pedestrians can cross.

I would have left a space in front of the dropped kerb, its part of good driving to consider other road users including pedestrians - but the woman sounds overly shouty and should not have barged her buggy into your car

Oh should of said... traffic calming bits are about four car lengths away from the crossroads so they are not the ones that double up as a pedestrian crossing

You’re both in the wrong.

You should left it clear.

She should have stayed calm.

Well I have to cross a road like that every day, except it's a long road with only those stupid crossings and no zebra at all! The amount of stupidly ignorant drivers are insane! slow moving traffic but still don't stop to let any pedestrians over, why? I am sure they are mostly local so would know there are no zebras for pedestrians. Or little traffic but the cars drive far too fast

When I drive the same road I always stop to let people cross.

Our problem is that that road is the boundary between two boroughs and they both say it's the others borough's responsibility so nothing gets done

Unreasonable driver.