to think British extracurricular activities are too much about competition?

[DorothyL]

Maybe it's not like this everywhere but at least in our area...
Play an instrument? Do grades
Dancing? Exams/competition team
Same for gymnastics etc
Football/rugby - make it into the team

There seems to be hardly any activity which can just be done for the enjoyment of it.
(Similar I guess to school subjects - not worth doing if you don't take an exam and achieve a top grade.)

Especially as children get older this seems to be such a shame - no opportunity to do an activity just for fun.
In the EU country I come from this is different.

It's not a competition (unless you're doing a competitive activity) but a mark of progress and evidence of learning- useful for UCAS

But why does it have to be useful for something?

Surely its a good thing to 'work towards' something?

When I was at primary school they didn't support us doing grades in music, it was supposed to be purely for enjoyment. It was a good approach.

You do t have to sit grades just because you're learning an instrument.

ZeroFuchs - but it means if you're not good enough to make the team or achieve the next exam you will see no point in continuing, when the activity is worthwhile just for health/enjoyment reasons.

I agree. The focus on children 'achieving' stuff has become utterly ridiculous.

Oh, I don't know, Dorothy - mine did canoeing, drama, Scouts and mucking about, none of which got very competitive.

They do have a few music grades between them, because 'I'm grade 5/6/8' is a good start for joining a new band or choir.

In France you don't do grades (On musical instruments) but if you don't pass your exam at the end of the year you have to give up. Better?

I think I meant to type orchestra rather than choir. Mind you,given my phone currently prefers to autocorrect into French for reasons of its own, that was closer to my intentions than some messages have been.

I completely agree OP. Children don't have a chance to do anything these days that isn't supervised or assessed by an adult, who is continually telling them to perform better/try harder/listen to 'advice'.
It's rubbish for them, as they are constantly worried about upsetting the grown up.

Unfortunately until you get to be an adult, you need to show you are progressing and learning at activities including sport as that's what universities look for.

Once you are 18 you can do stuff just for the fun off it. However if you say you play football or rugby employers still expect you to be in some sort of team, while if you do solo sports like running and cycling then every now and then you are expected to do a competition.

DorothyL Completely agree with you, especially the point you raised about older kids potentially feeling inhibited when contemplating trying something new.

Exactly- even as an adult running has to lead to a half or something...

It's crap.

DD2 has coordination difficulties. Loved dancing, where she'd been going since she was 2 (it was always more the Hakka than Swan Lake but she loved doing it). Then they screened kids out for the competition team (age 4) and the mothers of the kids picked developed egos the size of planets and started trying to bully any kids out of classes they felt were slowing their child's progress down... and the bloody "exams" (in the sense of those stupid rosettes that are just money makers) and the frigging show with the evil mums not wanting kids who weren't "up to scratch" in... we've been hounded out basically now from something that benefited DD2 greatly because of this need for competition. (Managed finally to find a laid back dance class for her where they don't do any of this crap at least but I'm still bloody angry about it now)

Even frigging swimming has them itching to check their child's progress every single week and agonising over the fact Tarquin hasn't been acknowledged for jumping in successfully back on the 15th May 1973.

You try to keep a not physically gifted kid active and it sometimes feels like you may as well be just waving a banner in front of them with "you're shit" on it for the poor kids.

Gymnastics is probably the thing we've found to be the least competitive as the onus is very much on the parents to chase after invites for squad trials and the like - they send the email out and it's up to the parents if they put their kids forward - not mentioned in classes or anything (hate it when they plug this shit shamelessly to the children to get them to pressurise the parents).

Exactly. If you have a child who can't keep up then it's basically tough shit, but then on top you'll probably get judged if they are inactive/overweight...

Cubs/Scouts/Brownies/Guides?

although they're encouraged to go for as many badges as possible, it's more to get them exposed to as many different experiences as they can.

music grades aren't competitive as such, it's just a formal way of assessing ability. You don't need to take them if you don't want to. I suspect it's the same with dancing (though i know most schools will be competition-focussed).

as for team sports - they're inherently competitive, and i can't imagine this is any different in any non-UK country where that sport is popular.

i doubt there's a single individual pursuit that a person could engage in, where there was no choice but to be either formally assessed for ability, or some other form of competition.

you just need to find the right place to do it.

also, if you completely shield your children from any form of assessment/competition, aren't you doing them a bit of a disservice?

there's not many jobs where you wouldn't be subject to one or the other in some way.

In the EU country I live in, it's far worse. (Just to add to the OP's anecdote-as-fact thing ) Not only do they do music exams/singing exams/dancing exams/language exams etc but they take part in regional and national maths/latin/Greek competitions as well.

Music grades aren't about competition in the usual sense. They're about attaining a recognised level. I'd imagine it's similar in dance.

Sports (rugby etc); why bother without competing or being on a team?
Without this you're a weirdo with a ball looking a little lost.

@RainbowFairiesHaveNoPlot

Interesting choice of "Tarquin". Do I get the feeling you have a little chip on your shoulder?

What employer expects you to be in a team if you do a sport?

Yes - at 10 my DS’s swimming classes were over due to this. Either move up to a competitive level, train 3 times a week and enter galas - or basically leave the club. He left as it would have taken up too much time. He was hardly going to become an Olympic swimmer but it would have been nice to have the option of staying at the club

I completely agree, DLS. I particularly hate the music exams, as it is something I know a little about. Extrinsic motivations don't add joy and a sense of satisfaction in the long term; they are a cheap trick.

I think some things naturally have a competitive side to them: chess, football, tennis, poker...

Lots of things are not naturally about competition: playing music, painting a picture, writing poetry, learning maths, etc.

Things which are not about competition are not improved by forcing them to be competitive.

YABU Competition is important and fun for childrem, knowing how to win and lose is important and so is learning to work hard.
You can tell which kids parents always let them win and whose whole childhood includes thinking their the best at everything whilst not ever actually doing anything and just having 'fun' all the time, they usually grow up to be lazy, spoilt and unlikeable adults.

The music grades as indication of a level is nonsense, by the way. You will have to play an audition to get into selective orchestras or festivals, which is fair enough. For less selective groups, a note from a teacher saying you are "Grade 5 equivalent" (or whatever) is enough of an indication of whether you are ready.