To think she’s faking?

[Appleofmypie]

One of my team at work is 14 weeks pregnant. She’s been off sick for 5 weeks with severe hyperemesis and still has a week left on her sick note (she’s being signed off for 2 weeks at a time)

By complete coincidence she is Facebook friends with a friend of mine.

My friend has put some pictures on Facebook this morning of her Greek holiday she’s still on, and my work colleague is in most of them - sunbathing, eating, swimming in the sea, playing volleyball. She has obviously blocked me as she is tagged in the pictures but her name is unclickable.

I’m gonna sound like a complete cow but I think she’s faking her sickness.
She’s on full pay from work and we’re having to pay an agency temp to cover her work too. It’s a small company that is struggling and I doubt we’re going to make any profit this month due to this.

My questions are:

Should I tell/show our boss?
What evidence of hyperemesis does a GP need to see to sign you off or Could it just be on her say so?
Is she actually doing anything illegal?
I know that pregnancy sickness is covered separately to normal in terms of disciplinary but if it’s proven she’s faking could it still be gross misconduct?

Thanks

Show your boss everything. Insults and all. If she posted those insults on social media where I work, it would be gross misconduct. We have a strict social media policy and that sort of thing is covered in that. It brings the business into disrepute. It’s also a completely separate issue from the sickness thing.

It also says to me that your colleague has deliberately done this and it isn’t a matter of suddenly getting better and being able to go (in which case she should have resumed from sick and used her a/l).

I was signed off while I was pg for SPD for almost five months, I didn’t have to go back to the doc for a repeat certificate after the first one, I could either call up or put a note in at reception. I also had fairly bad morning sickness and my doc offered to sign me off but I said no as my colleague was also pg and had REALLY bad morning sickness and was managing to go to work most days. However my colleague was in a local office and I had a long commute by train, I couldn’t manage the commute without being sick five times so I couldn’t go in a lot of the time, I could have managed working at home but my boss wouldn’t let me because he’s an arse. Company policy has since changed to say pg women should be encouraged to work at home in this situation!

Also I was signed off last year for a time with a flare up of an enduring MH condition, I had a holiday booked, my boss knew and said try and have a nice time. I wasn’t well enough to work or go really, but I didn’t want to disappoint the DC.

I think in the situation with your colleague the problem arises when it’s all done secretly. It might be legit. But she has gone to some lengths to hide it, which is going to make it a much bigger problem than it would have been had she been up front with it. I don’t see how your boss can maintain a working relationship with her.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/gp-topics/legal/gps-signatures-increasingly-being-forged-for-sick-notes/20032733.article

A formal investigation may also include confirming that the sick note is genuine.

Also re a grievance against the OP, for what exactly? Again, where I work, whistleblowing is encouraged where someone is seen to be flouting the rules etc. As someone has already said, these people breed resentment amongst other staff.

OP should feel confident in reporting the new information she has in the context of the information she already had. If she’s wrong, she’s wrong, but she was still right to have brought it to the attention of management.

Even if she turns out to be wrong, OP’s actions are completely defensible in the context of a grievance. She didn’t make anything up, she reported fact in response to what she has a perfectly reasonable belief to be fact (as she heard it directly from colleague, it wasn’t gossip).

Even if she turns out to be wrong, OP’s actions are completely defensible in the context of a grievance. She didn’t make anything up, she reported fact in response to what she has a perfectly reasonable belief to be fact (as she heard it directly from colleague, it wasn’t gossip).

The likely outcome doesn’t prevent someone from raising a grievance. Anyone can raise one about anything (and they do). It’s entirely possible that posting here, and such identifying details, is in contravention of a social media policy.

A formal investigation may also include confirming that the sick note is genuine.

That’s not what the PP suggested though.

Ok faking it or not, I imagine that most businesses would be able to fire someone if they were off sick and on holiday, if you are not well enough to go to work then surely going on holiday or even going out for a day out is not on. I would tell the boss, but I would firstly check that the holiday was not pre booked and she isn’t on annual leave instead of sick leave

I could barely make it to the bathroom with hyperemesis and was hospitalised. Certainly couldn't get on a plane. We had a little holiday in N Yorks when my sick note was at its end. I took annual leave for it.
Leave it to your employers to deal with allegations of fraud.

She doesnt have severe hyperemisis - honestly you can barely get out of bed, eat anything other than crackers....its a miserable existence.....the medication effects also leave you feeling quite woozy so i still dont think you would be up for a game of volleyball

I imagine that most businesses would be able to fire someone if they were off sick and on holiday, if you are not well enough to go to work then surely going on holiday or even going out for a day out is not on.

You imagine wrong.

What a lovely boss, setting her own facebook up and friend requesting you all to protect you! 😚

Ok faking it or not, I imagine that most businesses would be able to fire someone if they were off sick and on holiday, if you are not well enough to go to work then surely going on holiday or even going out for a day out is not on.

Normally that's the case, but as the CF is pregnant then they are much better protected than if they were not. These protections were put into place as employers were using all kinds of excuses to get rid of pg women in the past. I worked on an HR project once where there were redundancies going on. Any pg women were automatically ring fenced away from the redundancy process whatever their role or performance.

www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=1808045e-6244-4f89-828a-c26a2c5a6940

Just a general article but has few relevant points - including seeking professional guidance before instigating a disciplinary procedure.

To the person that said if you are signed off sick then you are not well enough to go on holiday.... depends on what you have been signed off with.

If you have stress or depression then it would be encouraged to unwind which may include a holiday and not be cooped up in your house which could make it worse.

However in this case if you are being sick from pregnancy and then going on holiday is a no or you take it as holiday. I wonder if the person has a doctor friend who signed this note?

I had sickness in pregnancy. I was signed off for 2 weeks. I couldn't move cause the sickness was making me tired and exhausted. By the end of the second week i felt better but completd the sick note to ensure I was rested.... that did not mean I took a flight to Greece.

This woman is the kind of person who makes it hard for honest people to take sick leave.

Happy I so agree with your last sentence!! I had HG and u couldn't have cared less if a lorry had dumped £1000000 outside my front door! I was too ill to move! There's no way I'd be going on holiday! And yes people like this make is so difficult for genuine ill pregnant ladies. Makes me so mad.

Normally that's the case, but as the CF is pregnant then they are much better protected than if they were not. These protections were put into place as employers were using all kinds of excuses to get rid of pg women in the past. I worked on an HR project once where there were redundancies going on. Any pg women were automatically ring fenced away from the redundancy process whatever their role or performance.

Pregnant staff have a very specific set of protections during redundancy situations. They absolutely don’t transfer across to all areas of employee contracts.

I do wish people wouldn’t advise when they aren’t qualified to.

I had HG severely up until around 25 weeks. It’s eased off but I still have some bad days.
I completely agree that just getting out of bed to be sick involves every bit of energy you can muster. It was a struggle to drink water most days.
I was signed off after going to the doctors and I showed signs of dehydration and weight loss but after the first 2 weeks it was all phone conversations and my husband would pick up my sick line. I was in hospital numerous times getting rehydration treatment so I’m sure the Doctor could see that on my notes. I really don’t know how easy it would be to get signed off if you weren’t displayed those symptoms.
You just want to curl into a ball and wake up when its all better again.Walking makes you want to commit!
I can’t see how she managed to go on holiday.
I’m not sure how Facebook works because I’m not on it but can your boss see the photos if she’s friends with you? Removes you from the situation and the backlash.
I really don’t know what can be done but she obviously new what she was doing was wrong, she tried to cover her tracks by blocking you, definetly cheeky.

Ooops missed the bit where your boss already thought of that Op!

If you’re feeling that sick, you could not even think of journeying to the airport, hanging around in airport, going on plane, journey the other side to where you’re staying, joining in with activities etc etc. There may be a grain of truth in that she was feeling a bit yuck before going on holiday, but the holiday would have been booked. This has been planned. If you’re working for a small company in particular, this is rubbish behaviour and what makes employers discriminate against women. I’m not sure about showing the boss though. I’d be tempted to ask her about her holiday and see if she offered any explanation.

OP, are you back at work today?

@TittyGolightly

If I was the boss I’d feel entitled to question whether the reason for her sickness contradicted her ability to go on holiday (esp. via plane) - and have that answer from her doctor.

You’ve no right to anything like that though.

Are you legal TG? not being confrontational, your posts are very confident.

In this instance, could you (the boss) reasonably ask CF for permission to see Dr notes about the reason for absence ? I'm pretty sure that I have worked for places where you have to consent to examination from a company doctor in the case of sickness? Not that I ever saw it happen

@ColaCube22 i totally agree. How has she managed to get a sick knife? Surely her gp would of tested for keytones. Though I suppose she could just say she's been really sick.....but sorry if it's tmi, you call tell if someone has hg by the colour of their wee. And how much there is of it. Unless she is being sick a couple of times a day....but that's not hg. Just makes me so frustrated

Are you legal TG? not being confrontational, your posts are very confident.

I’m a qualified HR professional in a senior position with over 15 years experience. Employment law is my bread and butter.

In this instance, could you (the boss) reasonably ask CF for permission to see Dr notes about the reason for absence ? I'm pretty sure that I have worked for places where you have to consent to examination from a company doctor in the case of sickness? Not that I ever saw it happen

Not likely. It’s what occ health is for.

Hi

Yes I’m back at work

I passed on the advice to see if anything could be claimed back from the council. Boss said she’s not holding her breath but will look into it.

What I do know is that boss has a meeting with HR about the social media issue (she uses an outside company) and that she has been advised (I think by Acas) that she has the right to either request to see colleagues medical records relating to this illness, or request that colleague sees an occupational health professional appointed by the company.

Boss also said that colleague hasn’t accepted her friend request but hasn’t deleted it so there’s a chance she hasn’t even seen it yet

Nah, shes seen it she just doesn't know what to do or is frantically cleansing her feed