To think that sometimes a new partners income should be considered by CMS?

[LolaLouise]

My ex hasnt seen our kids in 2 years, or paid a penny in 18 months. This includes birthdays and Christmas. School residential trips, school uniforms, childcare, activities, everything they need is paid for solely by myself. My ex quit his well paid job to live off some inheritance rather than pay for his kids. He said this was the reason for quitting his job.

6 months ago he entered a new relationship, where he now is a sahp to her two young children whilst she works full time. This arrangement has happened for he past 4 months. He is saving her a lot in childcare fees by staying at home and avoiding working so he doesnt have to pay his own. They have a good set up with extra from tax credits and enough to go on a summer holiday together.

Now aside from the morals of allowing a man you have known for 6 months to care full time for your children, she is well he is a father to 3 other children he has no contact or financial support for.

Am i wrong in thinking their household income should be considered by CMS? As it stands, as he has no taxable income, he is on a nil rate.

She could say that yes. But again, you’re not her moral police. I still don’t think it’s fair that due to him being a shit parent and her being an enabler means you can take her money. But we will obviously not agree! You chose to ask a question when your mind is clearly already made up...

Well yeah. I didnt come on asking for advice. I asked if my opinion was unreasonable given my circumstances. I have no interest in it being changed, just wondered if others, given the details of my situation would agree that jn some circumstances it should be household not fathers income they use.

Would you want to pay for a new partner’s children?

The OP is effectively subsidising her ex's partner's children by going without the maintenance that she should be getting. It'd be different if he was a SAHP to his own children but they aren't his children, they are his step-children.

YANBU- disgusting evasion of paying for his kids.

Torn on this.

My DP and I have been together nearly 6 years. No kids together but he has 3 from his first marriage. He was out of work for just short of a year not too long ago due to redundancy followed by an extended spell of ill health that stopped him from working.

I’m the main earner in our relationship so obviously had to take on all the bills for our home, but I also kept the monthly payments going for his kids. Just seemed the decent thing to do.

As happy as I was to step up for his kids when he couldn’t, I don’t like the thought of my income being considered in any calculations. Unlikely to happen as he and his ex sorted out the financials themselves as it’s all quite amicable, but I think I would resent being forced to contribute. That said , I do like doing things for/with them as I have no DC of my own, but that would need to be curtailed if anything changed.

Tbh if he was seen as unsafe around his own kids this arrangement needs to be made aware to the police.

You are not just being unreasonable, you are being insane.

As a mother who has paid entirely for my own child with no input (financial or otherwise) from her father, it is absolute lunacy to suggest that I could now potentially be liable to pay for a future partner's kids!

What planet are you on woman!

@whatyadoing shes made an decision to support an unemployed man with children. Thats her choice. I wouldnt support an unemployed man as i wouldnt want to take on the responsibility. Maybe if it was household more men would be forced to step up for the kids they created. Im not forcing women to support other womens children. Im suggesting they take a new partners income and responsibilities into consideration. If they dont want to support their offspring. Dont support them.

Maybe it shouldnt be household. Maybe if should be a partners income if the nrp isnt working and them it is paid at a lesser rate. Something needs to be done about men that father children, willingly and knowingly, children they claimed to want, but when a relationship breaks down they are able to withdraw all financial support. Its wrong it can happen.

@lolalouise . In my way of thinking, if she was a SAHM to her children and he supported her. Its his money that is enabling her that choice. he would then be earning and maintenance would be due to you.

I don't like to share. I loathe being beholden. Its cleaner and simpler to think 'my children, my financial responsibility'.

No. As much as I love my stepson and don’t mind paying for him when he is with us as well as towards any other bits he might need- school uniform when the time comes etc- it is not my responsibility to pay maintenance for him, it is his dad’s

OP- as you are so adamant to consider household income (=new partners wages) in order to calculate child maintenance, wouldn't you also have to consider household expenditure? As in living costs =accommodation, utilities, car and other consumables? That would be far to complex and you might still end up with nothing! Depending on the wage, there is always the possibility that it is just enough for them....

And on an other note: hell will freeze over before I would pay a penny in maintenance to some random child (that I don't even know or have a relationship with as suggested in your scenario)!

@lolalouise 'Im not forcing women to support other womens children. Im suggesting they take a new partners income and responsibilities into consideration. If they dont want to support their offspring. Dont support them.'

You are bitter and angry at your ex and you want to wrangle a way to make others pay for the fact that you never expected you ex to turn out to be such an arsehole and not take responsibility for his kids. But you knew this could happen all along. You didn't plan for it. That is why it irks you so much.

Whether she is supporting your husband or not, they are your kids not hers.

It's not her fault your husband doesn't want to pay for your kids. It's not her responsibility to pick up the slack, and frankly her childcare arrangements are none of your business.

Your issue is him, not her.

Wouldn’t his CMS contribution amount be less anyway, due to him having other DCs to care for in his home? So even taking into account her income, their joint income being used to support two other children would mean you got less.

The whole system is shit and I’m not sure how to improve it short of scrapping an starting again. The main thing needed is a cultural shift to see these dead beat dads as the irresponsible low lifes they are, but while women like his gF are happy to use him as childcare for her own DCs it’s clear that there is no stigma attached to a man who doesn’t see or provide for his own DCs.

If it’s any consolation, we all know that looking after children all day (especially when they’re not your own) is a really hard job and he’s probably cutting off his nose to spite his face here and would rather be back at work!

@Pigsears yeah i am. But im also angry another woman who receives cms for her kids is enabling a man to not pay for his but care for hers. Her attitude and morality is disgusting

I also dont want her to pay. I want him to pay. She is supporting him, he goes to the pub every weekend, plays the latest playstation games etc (i can see his achievements) so she is giving him money. If her income was considered and he had to pay something, albeit a lesser rate than off his own income, maybe he would have to go without luxuries he is currently able to have being supported by her.

I agree he should be paying for his kids via wages or from savings or accrued as a debt if he is not working. This should be a legal requirement and strictly enforced, IMO. I don't believe his new partner should be paying for his children.
Out of curiosity, would you pay for your DPs children (if he wasn't paying his ex)?

@Lifeisabeach09 indirectly i have done already. My partner found himself in a situation where his wages were close to nothing due to being misinformed when he was leaving the forces regarding a loan. I lent him the money to cover the forces loan so he had the money to pay cms etc and visit his kids. We werent even living together at the time however i know how his ex can be and had he been unable to pay he wouldn't have been able to see them. So i helped him out without a second thought. We also have household income so his cms are taken into account as an outgoing. If he lost his job that out going would still need to be paid for him to maintain contact. The frequency he saw them would reduce as i couldnt cover both transport and cms and funding their meals and activities whilst here but i would cover what i could for him in a heartbeat as i did previously

@LolaLouise she is doing the best for her kids in the best way that she can. That does not make her attitude and morality disgusting (her choice of man is clearly questionable however...). Take stock of the situation. Know and feel a sense of pride, that IN SPITE of being thrown this curve ball, you have picked up the slack and moved on. don't let this blip and bitterness crush you.

@LolaLouise, you sound like a lovely, supportive partner to your DP.
But it was your choice to help him out (as DPs do). Would you feel the same if it was obligatory or a legal requirement to provide his kids CMS (because he couldn't/wouldn't) every month?

@Pigsears she worked the job with childcare before she met him. She is benefiting from him being her babysitter at the expense of other children that should be considered. That makes me question her morality as i would never behave in such a way.

@Lifeisabeach09 if he deliberately left his job in order to avoid paying childcare it would be a none issue as out relationship would be over. How my partner is as a father is one of many reasons i am with him. I couldnt stand by a man that chose to neglect his responsibilities.

If it were up to me I would have some form of CCJ slapped on non payers
Let’s see how they manage to get on in life with a CCJ or something that is similar that how they work
No nice new flash car to lease , no getting a mortgage with new partner lack of credit cards and loans .
No getting the latest swanky iPhone on credit

Possibility of losing their job if they are in a position that requires no debt / CCJ and that require a finance check

Possibility of a charge on there house or any property that they own even if they own it with new partner

I would also block the fuckers passport so they can’t swan off abroad to work and not pay or bugger off on countless holidays with the new partner while ignoring his previous kids

At the moment there is little punishment to not paying CS but I bet if they brought in something like a CCJ complete with the six years on your credit file and then 3 years to drop off a lot more parents would pay CS

Cms not childcare*

I agree with you. If you moved in with a man who was earning a good wage, you lose all your tax credits and cannot claim anything because it is expected that your new partner's income will cover your children's expenses. Why not the same with an NRPs household?