To assume if you are anti-abortion, you are...

[Hamandcheesebaguette]

...pro a full, complete and comprehensive government benefits system to fund mothers for at least the first 5 years of her child's life?

I'll tell my story, it's not particularly interesting or traumatic, but had I not had access to a safe abortion at 6 weeks then I honest to god don't know how i would have not have ended up homeless or starving.

When I was 21, I met a man. Same age as me. I was working in an airport, leaving for work at 2.45am and usually not getting home until after 4pm. My take home pay was around £980 per month. After rent in my 1 bedroom flat in the cheapest (and also not particularly pleasant) area in my expensive city, council tax, topped up my gas and electricity meters and phone bill (I didn't even have a TV!) I had £35 left to eat and pay for buses to work for the rest of the month. After only knowing this man for 6 weeks, I found out I was pregnant. I was on the pill, maybe it failed, maybe I had missed a couple, I don't know.

Should I have had that baby... how in the hell would I have been able to provide anything for it on that wage? Oh wait, I wouldn't have had a wage at all bevause I wouldn't have had anybody to care for my baby whilst I was working full time and leaving for work in the middle of the night.

So I assume, if you are anti abortion, and I had had that baby, you also agree I should have been entitled to a reasonable council property (not covered in damp or mould or other H&S issues), my rent paid, my council tax paid, plus money provided for gas, electricity, food etc. Plus some furniture (as I always rented fully furnished and didn't have any furniture of my own at 21), a TV, broadband (or maybe I should have sat in with my baby with absolutely nothing except the walls to stare at...)

Plus possible full training paid for by the government when I could have gone back to work once this baby reached school age, as I wouldn't have been a very attractive job applicant by this point.

AIBU to assume this is tour stance if you insist I should have been forced to have been a mother when I didn't want to be one, couldn't afford to be one?

I'm certainly not looking for a shouting match at all. I just wanted a discussion.

If you believe I should not have aborted that "baby" at 5/6 weeks... what should I have done in that situation. I've already highlighted the issues with adoption. Although not mentioned who would have covered my bills when I was on "maternity" leave etc.

I know we do have a system in place to support peiple in these situations, but think how much of a bigger strain on the already struggling system if there were more people in the situation bevause they coukdnt have abortions (as pro-lifers seem to wish).

Can we not put about the idea that abortion only really happens following rape, abuse or inadequate contraception? Sometimes that's the case but not always.

A woman must be allowed to make the decision for whatever reason she chooses...even if it's just that she's changed her mind.

If you claim it only happens after abuse (which is not tue) then you just heap on more guilt when a woman is seeking a termination for some other reason. Very irresponsible, imo.

Surely the whole thing about choice is that you then don’t criticise others whose views are opposite to yours?

One thing I would say is that there are girls that are pushed into abortion by their parents and I do feel that there should be more support in the form of counselling for those who need it . Otherwise it can in some situations lead to problems later .

The thing about the pro life movement that strikes me is that they only care about the unborn.
They have little or no regard to the life of the woman.
They don't seem concern of the life the child will have after birth.
Love both, yeah right.

Hamandcheesebaguette

I'm pro-choice. I think you had every right to an abortion.

But if I didn't think that, it wouldn't be my job to make suggestions about how you should have coped. Not agreeing with abortion doesn't make every unwanted child your responsibility.

I know OP I have thought this so many times!! For sure if this is all about wanting to protect the lives of children - well then you've got to fund everything else that goes with it!!

@flyingpompom sorry! I'm on my tiny phone screen and tagged the wrong person when I was scrolling up to see who I was replying too!

Penggwyn - well the OP will have to answer that!

I think as an illustration it's a good point to thrust in the blind faces of people who don't see why women need choices. Many many other illustrations could also be used.

As an actual proposal - that's a different kettle of fish!

When you have an abortion you destroy a potential life and a potential human being. That's a fact. How you or the law justifies it is another argument entirely. Let's leave it at that because the two sides will never ever agree.

What do I think you "should" have done?

Whatever felt right to you at the time. It's can be difficult to know what that is, sometimes, but it sounds like you made the right one for you.

I was in your boat, and I chose to keep my son....but I certainly considered alternatives. I just don't like your suggestion that it is currently impossible for a single pregnant woman to get support from the state if she continues with a pregnancy because that is bullshit.

Luckily, while the benefits system isn't what you'd call generous, it's enough to keep mother & child healthy and housed.

@Peggysusane but what about after the maternity leave ends? Without a good support network who would be looking after the baby when the op had to leave for work at 2:45 in the morning? I struggle to get childcare at 7am!

I'm not suggesting the actual proposal is a sensible one... it just seems to me, that at that point in my life that woukd have been the only option short of going hungry, possibly being homeless, getting into debt etc with a baby in tow as well

I agree, banana. And there's always this huge rhetoric of trauma and guilt around abortion, like it's only OK as long as you really suffered for it.

Well, I didn't. I was pregnant by my boyfriend at the time, who wasn't abusive, I had been taking the pill but it happened anyway. I was 19, I was fairly sure our relationship was not for the long haul, I was still at university and I did not want a baby. I terminated. I wasn't traumatised. I didn't feel guilty.

Years later I had an early miscarriage, which I found very hard, however now I have a healthy DS.

@sprinklesinmyelbow

Read my post. I have changed my opinion because of my own experience. I was brought up in a very religious family. So actually I am pro choice now. I think that shows a lot of reflection and growth to be honest. Indoctrination of values in families is clearly quite common and it takes experience to enable people to actually critically analyse the belief system they have been raised in. People’s beliefs don’t happen in a vacum. If I get shot down for sharing my experience on what changed my mind and get told I lack emotional intelligence..... how they hell do you expect people to actually listen and change?

See my issue with those against abortion is that there is rarely a grey area. What if the child is a product of rape? What if the woman has serious mental health issues? What if the child has a severe disability. Why should women have to carry and care for that child? Why should the child have to endure those circumstances and potentially grow up with someone who doesn't want them?

And from my limited knowledge isn't it true that few children are actually adopted in Ireland? Don't most just go into foster care?

I would have done the same as you op and would now if I got pregnant. Not in a place financially to have a kid, we would struggle majorly. Once I've paid all my debt, maybe could. But thats not gonna clear any time soon.

Presuming you are in lrelend l agree with Banana. I don't know the UK system.
My ds and his gf had a baby when both students him 20 her 18.
Due to college circumstances they didn't live together.
She free house..rent paid. Money per week. Medical card for her and baby. Fuel allowance.
Grant to go to college for 4 years. Fees paid plus some extras as already had free accomodation. Very cheap childcare in a community creche. Back to school allowance when her dd started school as she was still in college.She was then allowed to work without losing benefits for a short while.
By then both of them had college degrees so able to support dd.
Obviously it wasn't easy but l don't know if you realise those supports are there.

Abortion is unpleasant*. No woman wants to find herself in the position of requiring an abortion.

I support abortion to term. That does not mean It’s not a choice I would find easy to make. I would support any woman in any stage of pregnancy as I would rather no child born than an child born to a woman who didn’t want to be a mother.

Not my body. Not my

I think a lot of pro-life people must live a very privileged existence where they have never been in/ could conceive of a situation desperate enough to warrant an abortion

This is a big assumption. I myself had a wretched pg with DS 2 who was unplanned and agonised over whether to have an abortion. But I felt it was morally wrong to do. My life has been harder as a result of that decision, much harder, and my health was badly affected, but I am happy with my choice. My beliefs were tested. If anything my experience could make me more entrenched in my views that abortion is wrong.

@bananatoffo (god i miss Toffos!!!)

That wasnt my point, although I haven't made that very clear. I know there is a support system from the government in place, and my mother was a recipient of this when she was in a similar situation to mine but chose to have me. Whilst the system isn't great, we are lucky to have what we do have.

My point was, in a world where you coukdnt easily access a safe abortion, many many more women woukd be claiming these benefits etc and possobly putting so much strain on the system that it couldn't continue, we are already cutting back and told there isn't enough money.

If have put you in a home for immoral mothers. Beaten you. Made you work like a slave and then sold your child to America.

OH sorry I forgot the Catholic Church already did that to thousands of women and children.

Posted too soon.

Effectively:

I support a woman’s right to chose. Every child a wanted child.

I aborted and have zero regrets or guilt. It was the right thing to do for me.

*i’d even!

The number of adoptions in this country fell last year, for the second year in a row, despite the number of children in care rising. There are simply not enough people coming forward who are willing and able to give a home to all the children who need a home. So those of you who are anti-abortion and think "just have it adopted" is a brilliant solution to unwanted pregnancy, my question to you is this: how many of these unwanted children can we put you down for?

Also since many women who have abortions do so due to scans/tests detecting serious abnormalities with the feotus, I assume those of you who would deny them an abortion would be willing (and emotionally and financially able) to adopt and provide 24/7 care for a child with profound disabilities or life limiting illness?

Because if not you should really keep your opinions to yourself.

Why does anyone else have to make suggestions about what you should have done?

OP is asking if all pro life
Campaigners are willing to suppprt the actual child they are trying to 'save'. Do they raise funds to pay for pranks and baby milk? Will they babysit whilst the woman works?

Why do they dictate what the woman should do but end all suppprt once the baby is effectively born?

I'm pro choice - and according to figures more woman in their 40s have abortions than teens. It's not just he young that struggle it all woman form all walks of life.

I don't want to have anymore children but should I find myself expecting I want the right to decide what to do with my body and my baby. It's nobody else's business.