To think 'boys just being boys' is not a good enough response to someone being taped to a chair and gagged?

[FujiNine]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44222575

A woman was taped to a chair and her mouth covered with tape at her workplace and when she raised it with her manager, was told it was probably "the boys just being boys".
Wtf?

Awful, I hope she takes them to the cleaners.

Nicola Sturgeon has asked a top civil servant (female) to undertake an immediate enquiry and report back to her personally.

Nicola Sturgeon 'horrified' by gagged worker photo - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44240538

This is an act of violence, and the fact that the perpetrators weren't given some kind of formal warning is outrageous.

But sexism/misogyny isn't a hate crime. We are still, as women, worth less than the other 49% of humanity (yes, 49% - women are technically in the majority, demographically speaking). This is our reality.

FFS.

I was dumbfounded when I read about this yesterday. It almost read like the plot of a film. The denial, the minimisation, the excuses, the victim blaming.

That this was (maybe still is) taking place in the public sector almost makes it worse. This wasnt some backstreet company living in the dark ages where they know no better. This was in the public sector where the highest standards of behaviour between colleagues should be a given.

I've shared this story on my facebook page and I suggest that you do too. The more awareness of this type of shit will help people come forward and not tolerate it. It's disgusting but not surprising sadly, some men think they are untouchable.

Did the lady report the attack to the police?

I didn’t do anything. My line was crossed when they pulled my shirt over my head to immobilize my arms and groped my breasts and stomach. My face was covered by my shirt and I couldn’t fight back because my arms were enclosed within my shirt above my head.
I had a (female) friend who offered to back me if I placed a complaint (she wasn’t there but saw me after I fled).
I actually still don’t know who did it. There were about six male colleagues there but I have no idea who was groping me because I was effectively blindfolded.
Idiots.

I live in the area where this happened, moved here about 10 years ago, and sadly in a lot of ways it's still stuck in the '70s. I'm horrified by the number of people I know who've commented in support of the men when this news item's been shared on local Facebook pages.

This needs to
Go viral and someone need to get into serious trouble for this

Fuck that’s horrible

I think if you visited the area you would understand. You go back in time three decades. Local support for the men does not surprise me.

I’m so glad there is national coverage. These men should have been sacked.

OMG Mamaryllis I'm so sorry you were sexually assaulted by your colleagues. I'm a bit speechless reading that

I’m also from this area and it does not surprise me in the least.

The woman was supposed to have a " fabricated" disciplinary" hearing. Luckily this has been immediately suspended until this case has been investigated.

I work with all men, and it gets all very 'laddy ' at times, and sometimes I do slam the brakes on their 'silliness' as it can go too far but this is absolutely horrifying. That poor woman, I would have been terrified.

Sadly this is how it goes in organisations which don't have strong anti bullying policies which are used. The person who is in some way different (gender, race, sexual orientation, social class) is singled out. If they complain then they are 'not team players'. If they leave then it is because they didn't fit in with the team culture. If they stay they will get more of the same.

This is one of those occasions when I think it’s best left for the law to deal with rather than being picked over by outraged posters on forums demanding blood despite not being in possession of the full facts.

Remember what happened with the lifeguard last month when there were claims they’d been sacked because of a couple of mugs with mildly bawdy jokes on? And there was outrage including on here but it turned out that was the tip of the iceberg and the photo had been manipulated to garner public support?

This (alleged) incident happened almost a decade ago and doesn’t appear to have been raised until it was leaked to the press when this woman was on the verge of being sacked.

We have no way of knowing who it was taken by, when it was taken, exactly what it shows, and how it was sourced by the press.

For a start I would point out that the ‘restraints’ shown would be completely incapable if restraining a small child, let alone an adult woman.

But, hey, when did MN ever let the facts get in the way of a lynch mob?

so I'm guessing the lady didn't report to police? Too scared maybe.

honestly I hope the perpetrators get what they deserve. and that's more than losing their jobs.

Dancingtothebeat According to the BBC the photograph was taken by one of the men alleged to have been involved in the incident. Does it matter that the restraints could be released, does that somehow make the incident acceptable?

Many people dont report incidences of bullying to the Police even when very serious because they find the whole thing humiliating - which is often the purpose of the bullying. The victim feels ashamed.

gnome, it does matter when you’re using words like ‘restraint’ which means the deprivation of personal freedom and freedom of movement. Because whatever is happening in that picture I don’t think ‘restraints’ is the correct term to use.

I really don’t know the ins and outs of this case and neither will anybody else outside of those involved with the tribunal.

What I do know is that when people involved in cases like this make a big deal of leaking extremely partisan information to the press knowing that the other side legally has zero right of reply it’s normally wise to treat whatever is viewed with a huge pinch of salt (not least because people normally resort to that course of action when they haven’t got a leg to stand on and are trying to leverage themselves out of the worst case scenario).

As I said, an example of this is a few weeks ago with the outrage against the Lifeboat men who were sacked supposedly over a couple of racy mugs.

It turned out that was the tip of a very big iceberg and that the photos and descriptions in the press did not accurately reflect what had happened there.

The only undisputed area seems to be that in 2016 (six years after the alleged events) this woman sent a text to her line manager saying that she was going to Canada because her Dad was ill then stopped responding to any attempt to communicate with her and has never returned to work.

But both this and the lifeboat case both smack to me of people who think they can be clever and manipulate the general public into doing their dirty work by whipping them up into a mindless frenzy without possession of all the facts.

And of course they are completely right, because as this thread shows, great swathes of the general public are gullible, credulous, given to knee jerk reactions and are unable to distinguish between reliable evidence and partisan leaks without having the framework of a legal system to guide them.

This isn't a court of law it is a discussion forum and we were discussing.

If the image which has got into the media is a true image ie not faked does it matter why or how it got into the media?

The problem with work place bullying is that discussion gets shut down. There is always an investigation going on or a statement that it has been dealt with. What doesn't happen is a investigation of the culture within organisations which allows bullying to thrive.

gnome, this case is currently under legal proceedings and the woman concerned is using her individual circumstances to subvert those legal proceedings despite the fact that everyone else involved is still gagged by them.

I did a little bit of digging this afternoon after reading this thread and from info coming from this woman’s side alone I can tell you this. The photo and the narrative of what is happening in it was released by this woman’s sister in law in Canada who is beyond the jurisdiction of the (Scottish) law involved.

Nobody else involved can defend themselves or give their version of events because they are all subject to Scottish and UK law.

So, yes, it bloody does matter. As far as you know there could be sixteen people with bullying grievances in against her - you wouldn’t know because everybody else involved with the case cannot speak.

You might be so dense you think you can pronounce confidently that this is a case of workplace bullying on the basis of one photograph which you don’t know the context of and without any sight of any of the other evidence.

But as you say, fortunately this is not a court of law so excitable gullible people like you and your knee jerk conclusions are completely irrelevant. And the tribunal will not be decided on the basis of you tut tutting on a forum.

Dancingtothebeat if you think that this thread will prejudice legal proceedings then report it. Dont throw out cheap insults to try to shut down discussion.

If my comment is so irrelevant why are you bothering to engage?

If the image which made its way into the media was fake then that will quickly be revealed. If on the other hand it was real then what does it matter if other grievances have been raised? Does one grievance negate another or do multiple grievances indicate a culture in which bullying has become normalised?

To those saying sack them all immediately, I am glad you know the full story. Maybe you should hear from both sides? Perhaps this was an office prank that she agreed to? So investigate and then discipline appropriately, which would be sacking if guilty. It certainly doesn't have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt but it would be wrong not to investigate properly and sack innocent people.

If the image which made its way into the media was fake then that will quickly be revealed. If on the other hand it was real then what does it matter if other grievances have been raised? Does one grievance negate another or do multiple grievances indicate a culture in which bullying has become normalised?

You know, when you’re prepared to be this daft don’t complain if you’re called daft. You’re a gullible, credulous easily manipulated person. The photo may not be ‘fake’ but out of context and not a depiction of what is claimed. You might think your principles are superior, but you’re actually no better than pitchfork weirding mobs who chasing away paediatricians instead of paedos. You have a small bit of partisan and possibly not accurate information and you’ve decided that means you are capable of confidently making pronouncements on this case on the basis of one photo and info from an extremely biased source. No, we won’t ‘find out’ if this is inaccurate, because there is a ban on reporting and discussing it which only this woman has (unfairly) broken because she knows no matter what she has done or claims, nobody else can legally stand up for themselves or contradict her even if this is a pack of lies. There are other human beings and other families involved in this who may well be unfairly smeared but can’t respond because they are playing fairly and by the rules.

But fortunately we have a legal system which protects people from those like you who are credulous and easily whipped into self righteous frenzys and from the sort of social media mob whipping this thread contains and long may it continue.