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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that if you don't want people to use the N word, don't put it in the lyrics of your songs

301 replies

PatriarchyPersonified · 22/05/2018 14:38

Just that really. Kendrick Lamar invited a fan out of the audience at a recent gig to rap along to the lyrics of one of his songs.

The fan (a white lady) repeatedly used the N word, because it's in the lyrics. He stopped her and told her she couldn't say it. She was also booed and abused by the crowd.

🤔

If you don't want people to say a certain word, then don't put it in the lyrics of your songs.

It's either not acceptable, or it's ok. You can't have it both ways.

I personally don't think the N word is an acceptable word to be used full stop, and that doesn't change based on the race of the person using it.

www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44209141

OP posts:
rosesandflowers · 28/05/2018 18:18

That's like saying I can't sing the words bitches or whores in private because I might slip up in public, and it's still offensive to women to even say them when nobody is around as the words stem from patriarchal oppression.

I didn't say that you can't sing it in private because you might sing it in public. I'm saying that it's ridiculous to say you've "slipped up" because you're "used to" rapping along - when you made the decision to rap along selectively in the first place.

The reason I find it strange is because, honestly, understanding the significance of the word would generally make it at least uncomfortable to say it in private, no? Certainly I feel uncomfortable saying the n word, regardless of the context, and I know many of my white friends who absolutely hate to, no matter where they are. Saying it exclusively in private suggests you're worried about what people might say if you do it in public, but you don't actually care.

Of course I could be over-analysing this. But I find it difficult to understand how someone could simultaneously grasp that the word is not for them to say and all the reasoning behind it, and then go on to do so in situations when nobody else can hear.

woodywoo2 · 28/05/2018 18:30

He sounds a right dickhead

LurkNoFurther · 28/05/2018 20:55

Me & DH argue about this all the time! He is mixed race and we both love rap music. I can't help but use the N word when singing along in the car. (Would never sing it in front of anyone else Tbf.) My argument is that I have carried his babies and therefore have had 'Black blood' in me GrinGrin

LurkNoFurther · 28/05/2018 21:00

Just to clarify, I am not white. I think that does make a difference as I have experienced racism too. We don't take ourselves too seriously in this regard tho

Namechangedname · 28/05/2018 21:05

Nobody should use it. And to be honest, any black person using it, is a bit dim, in my opinion. And down right ignorant.

, I see it as a form of reclaiming control and collective identity-making.

Are you for f_cking real?

Namechangedname · 28/05/2018 21:25

It's a disgusting word. And it doesn't make it any less disgusting because a black person uses it. If anything, more so, given the shit we have suffered, as a race.

Either you're serious about racism, or you're not. To be fair, any black person who called me a n_r would not get a high five, but rather a Hmm

It's not cool, it's not reclaiming. It's going backwards in time whilst being a hypocrite.

My son and his friends tried singing it once (they were around 12). I put on Roots for them to watch. Funny, the n word seemed to lose its appeal after that!

Know your history. If you want to be taken seriously, you can't cherry pick racist words and decide you can say them but you, over there, cannot Hmm

And, how can such a negative word be empowering? Confused

It's ridiculous!

MrsTerryPratchett · 28/05/2018 22:22

Whether black people are comfortable hearing it, saying it or singing it is something that's none of my business. Women, gay people, indigenous people and others have reclaimed terms. With mixed results.

But there really isn't an argument for white people using it. 'They use it so it's not fair' is so childish and silly it's not worth discussing. I feel like I'm talking to my 7 yo. Maybe no one is allowed to use it but white peoples certainly shouldn't.

However for the hundredth time; he did have a man onstage as well, also white, bleeped himself. So KL didn't select a woman deliberately, didn't single her out. And someone managed to do it. So it's not as hard to avoid, substitute or mumble as some appear to think.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 28/05/2018 22:38

Mmm this was in America

Cultural use of words what can be used by whom, reclaiming etc is far more of a talked about issue history is different not that I think it’s a word that is ok to use here but should that have happened here it wouldn’t have the same impact and I am sure KL would be aware of that as we on the whole are not so aware

rosesandflowers · 29/05/2018 09:43

However for the hundredth time; he did have a man onstage as well, also white, bleeped himself. So KL didn't select a woman deliberately, didn't single her out. And someone managed to do it. So it's not as hard to avoid, substitute or mumble as some appear to think.

I don't think people really think it's hard to substitute - they just like grasping at excuses for inexcusable behaviour.

My son and his friends tried singing it once (they were around 12). I put on Roots for them to watch. Funny, the n word seemed to lose its appeal after that!

Again, this is the more "old-school" attitude I discussed earlier - a lot of black people just feel the word carries far too much weight. But for younger generations, whose first experiences of the word are usually coming from a black idol of theirs, either in a casual way or a defiantly proud way, it can most definitely be empowering. (Think 'Lemonade' - that uses the n word multiple times).

Out of interest, did you show your son and his friends more modern black history? I think you can find clips/news articles from when using the n-word was a revolution, but perhaps even more modern. You can find great videos and discussions/articles of why white people shouldn't be allowed to use the n-word, and should it be banned for everyone? online.

Personally I think it's a choice a black/biracial person should make for themselves. I can definitely realize that a word which stood for something so hideous in history would be repellent for some people. But I think the meaning has changed - and it has become empowering for many people.

Ifonlyfor1day · 29/05/2018 09:48

I fully agree. It can not be right for one but wrong for the another.

I raised my DC and would blank a friendship for using the N word. Yet DD9 hears it in certain music when I told her black people are allowed to use the word she was confused, as am I.

Ifonlyfor1day · 29/05/2018 09:52

My sister was called a pink pig when she was fat by a black lady, I would call that racist.

Also abroad when I went to party places the lucky lucky guys call us girls chicken nugget, when I asked why he said because you are white meat.

bobstersmum · 29/05/2018 09:53

Totally agree op. Just don't use the word full stop.

Mookie81 · 29/05/2018 10:01

Namechanged completely agree.

It's not 'old school' thinking, it's 'not being a twat' thinking. Modern history showing how it's being used by black people against each other just shows how ridiculous we've become and, in my opinion, a laughing stock to others.

DN4GeekinDerby · 29/05/2018 11:30

Because nothing pissed off racists more than the black people reclaiming the insult.

...I'm a mixed race person who grew up in the Bible Belt - the kind of places where KKK rallies happened and still happen - and I'm not sure where anyone gets this idea. I knew quite a few proudly racist people and none of them cared about this. Does anyone think sexist men care about women calling ourselves bitches or hoes or sluts? Does any able-bodied person who mocks and beats disabled people care if we call ourselves cripples or spaz?

I don't think word reclamation has anything to do or any impact on hateful people, it might help take the sting out and attempt to rebalance power but as we can see from the use of those words today, it doesn't do a very good job of it.

I agree with saiya06, I have no desire to police how individuals refer to themselves or interpersonal relations and reclaiming words can be power for individuals even if it doesn't change much socially; however the way music like this is packaged and sold to people does come across as giving permission and I can't get irrate if people use it as advertised to them. I wouldn't use it but I can see how in the way it's shown would mean some would see a song lyric as very different than used as an insult.

I'm pretty cautious in speech with these sorts of words, I don't find them appealing, but I think the oversimplification of power dynamics and history doesn't really help anything - collective-based research can help find issues but it falls apart on the individual level because everyone within the same group is different and we can't just switch around attributes to say who would and would not have more social power - it's really a lot more complicated. We can work reduce to current inequality and suffering today because today's suffering is wrong without cherry picking the horrors of history which affect everyone and every group. I mean, while we now have a cultural view of enslaved people as African, the word slave is derived from Slavic people for very good historical reasons and even recent history of slavery has shown the issue to not be so black and white.

rosesandflowers · 29/05/2018 12:50

...I'm a mixed race person who grew up in the Bible Belt - the kind of places where KKK rallies happened and still happen - and I'm not sure where anyone gets this idea. I knew quite a few proudly racist people and none of them cared about this. Does anyone think sexist men care about women calling ourselves bitches or hoes or sluts? Does any able-bodied person who mocks and beats disabled people care if we call ourselves cripples or spaz?

I'm not talking about in the modern day. In the modern day I don't think they particularly care (until they're not allowed to say it Biscuit). But in the original days of the reclamation, people very much did care. It was quite a revolutionary idea and it did piss people off. It still kind of does, in a more mild way. People often get very upset when they're told they're not supposed to use the n word, as evidenced. I remember watching a straight girl eventually burst into tears after greeting a group of LGBTQ+ students as "f*ggots" and being asked not to refer to them as such! When the argument developed she began to cry and complain "it's not fair"...

I don't think word reclamation has anything to do or any impact on hateful people, it might help take the sting out and attempt to rebalance power but as we can see from the use of those words today, it doesn't do a very good job of it.
No? I'd argue that a whole generation hearing the word first from a friend, or from a song like 'Lemonade' - which I've now referenced twice, I know, but is such a fantastic example - is fantastic. These kids are still aware of black history, but now they've not only accepted the horrific racism which has impacted their past and even their present, but they've reclaimed it and now they've got it as part of their identity - and not necessarily a negative part. The fact that they've understood the history of a word, taken back the word and now transformed it into an embodiment of the solidarity and community between black people racists of old (and now) tried so hard and maybe sometimes succeeded to break - it's impressive, and I can completely see the value in that, even if it's not something I'd like for myself. The amount of support in the black community I see with the younger generation is not something I saw in the older ones, certainly not to this extent, and I think it's wonderful. "Blackouts", the #blackexcellence tag, #melaninpoppin', all of this - they try so hard to uplift one another and I love that.

Modern history showing how it's being used by black people against each other just shows how ridiculous we've become and, in my opinion, a laughing stock to others.
How often is it used really against one another, though? When (some) black people reclaimed the word, the definition obviously changed. It's not necessarily a sword they're wielding against one another. It can be just a way of referring to a black man, or in some contexts, just a person (I understand this generally happens in memes, which I'm not very up-to-date with). But often it can be an expression of identity and solidarity - something, as I raved about in my earlier paragraph, that I actually adore.

Namechangedname · 30/05/2018 20:01

Again, this is the more "old-school" attitude I discussed earlier - a lot of black people just feel the word carries far too much weight

Nothing 'old school' about not wanting to be called a n__r, by anyone!

It carries a lot of weight; whether you are five, 25 or 50. For what it's worth; I have family over here and in the states. None of us use it, why on earth would we? Confused

You can find great videos and discussions/articles of why white people shouldn't be allowed to use the n-word, and should it be banned for everyone? online

Without wanting to sound off, I have had enough experience in my life, including here and abroad. And nothing will change my opinion that the word n__r should be confined to the history books.

they try so hard to uplift one another and I love that.

We can uplift each other without using the N word.

Namechangedname · 30/05/2018 20:05

It's not 'old school' thinking, it's 'not being a twat' thinking. Modern history showing how it's being used by black people against each other just shows how ridiculous we've become and, in my opinion, a laughing stock to others

Exactly, mookie81. How can we be taken seriously?

Uyulala · 30/05/2018 21:34

have family over here and in the states. None of us use it, why on earth would we?

But just because you and you're family don't, doesn't mean other black people don't. Rap/Hip-Hop is littered with it. A lot of popular music is. Well, not pop music.

Namechangedname · 30/05/2018 21:44

Uyulala, I never said that other black people don't, re-read my post Confused

Uyulala · 30/05/2018 22:16

@Namechangedname

What I mean is your "why on Earth would we!?" like you're so incredulous when it's very much part of a culture, especially musically. Although, that particular word seems to be spelled with an "a" ending in music. Confused
Sorry I might have misunderstood, I'm v sleepy.

Namechangedname · 30/05/2018 22:19

When I said 'we', I was on about me and my family.. not the entire black population.

Uyulala · 30/05/2018 22:21

@NameChangedName

I thought that, but it didn't make sense in response to the part you highlighted as replying to, apologies.

Namechangedname · 30/05/2018 22:23

It doesn't matter whether it's spelled nigga or nigger. In my opinion, it shouldn't be used my anyone.

Namechangedname · 30/05/2018 22:23

by*

Uyulala · 30/05/2018 22:25

Fair enough

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