To think that if you don't want people to use the N word, don't put it in the lyrics of your songs

[PatriarchyPersonified]

Just that really. Kendrick Lamar invited a fan out of the audience at a recent gig to rap along to the lyrics of one of his songs.

The fan (a white lady) repeatedly used the N word, because it's in the lyrics. He stopped her and told her she couldn't say it. She was also booed and abused by the crowd.

🤔

If you don't want people to say a certain word, then don't put it in the lyrics of your songs.

It's either not acceptable, or it's ok. You can't have it both ways.

I personally don't think the N word is an acceptable word to be used full stop, and that doesn't change based on the race of the person using it.

www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44209141

I'm just confused at what white people think is racism against them..

And it is very interesting that he chose a women for his teaching moment/Extra publicity. I bet he wouldn't have done it to a 6"4" rugby player type.

This 1,000,000%

"And it is very interesting that he chose a women for his teaching moment/Extra publicity. I bet he wouldn't have done it to a 6"4" rugby player type."

Absolute bollocks!

This isn't a case of misogyny. This is a common happening at concerts, to both women and men, and previously all the white people have never rapped the n word. I don't think he was using this as a teachable moment. I don't think it occurred to him that a white person, whatever their views, would willingly subject themselves to being booed by the audience, probably filmed and put on YouTube and then mocked in the comments, and have news articles written about them. The woman wasn't just ignorant, she was plain stupid.

This woman was in the wrong and knew she was in the wrong by the way she reacted to Kendrick. After telling her exactly what to do, he gave her a second chance.

This wasn't him being sexist, FFS. This is why white women are getting a lot of flack recently - because white feminists fail to note that being a woman does not mean you are exempt from making mistakes when it comes to intersectional issues. And women like this keep getting validation because their fellow white feminists will pull every trick out of the hat to defend them.

And before anyone comes from me; I'm not using white as in skin tone. I'm using the term "white feminist" as a whole.

Not necessarily, rosesandflowers I don't generally think about myself as White British, I'm just me, I don't even worry about my skin colour. I have friends who are white and friends who are black, and friends who are Asian, we're all people at the end of the day. But then again, my family travelled a lot when I was young, so racial differences weren't even on my radar.

This girl probably should have thought about the lyrics as she sang them, but she was obviously a fan and probably sang along to his music at home. She was obviously a fan, so it's very unlikely that she meant the word as a racial slur. I don't think she deserved to be humiliated the way she was.

This girl probably should have thought about the lyrics as she sang them, but she was obviously a fan and probably sang along to his music at home.
She should be avoiding saying it AT ALL, but regardless, as you said, it was her mistake. It was her fault. End of.
She was obviously a fan, so it's very unlikely that she meant the word as a racial slur.
This word is now more complicated than a racial slur. White people shouldn't get cookies for not using words as racial slurs. That's just being a decent human being.
(And, I think that I've raised this before, but Kendrick is VERY open about his views. If she was a fan, she really should have known.)
I don't think she deserved to be humiliated the way she was.
Was she humiliated, though? By someone else, I mean? Kendrick merely corrected her. Admittedly it was on a stage, but if I was her I'd be mortified about slipping up and my obviously defensive reaction. Not about him saying something.

Inarguably, this is her fault. IMO no excuse for not being educated about misogyny, race, sexuality, gender, ANY of it, in this day and age. And if you say the n word knowing the reaction you'll get based on your principles, then you deal with the consequences. Especially when you're a grown woman.

IMO, this woman needs to realise she made a mistake and move on. Possibly tweet or something to apologise and then leave it. She'll do herself no favours trying to defend herself or push the blame on Kendrick, and people attempting to do those things will only make her feel validated in that kind of defensive, knee jerk reaction. Which will only end up in her being corrected even more, by more people, probably less nicely than Kendrick did it, with a load of hate comments added on too. Not to mention she'll probably end up being Photoshopped throughout black history like the woman who called the police on the barbecue.

But then why did he invite her to come on stage to sing with him? He knew there was an n word in the song, so what was he expecting her to sing at that point? Was it a test? There were others on the stage, so I'm surprised he even heard her singing that word, so I think it probably was a test.

It would have been better not to have a white person on stage if he felt so strongly about it.

I think the only thing the girl was guilty of was stupidity or naivety.

I agree with the OP that the N word should not be used at all. It is noticeable that many of the male singers who use it have a very poor and/or unacceptable attitude towards women in general ('bitches' is not an acceptable word, for example).

I think all derogatory terms should be banned, whether in terms of race like the N word or gender i.e. 'bitch' (except when referring to a female dog). I don't see how that could ever be enforced though.

But then why did he invite her to come on stage to sing with him? He knew there was an n word in the song, so what was he expecting her to sing at that point? Was it a test? There were others on the stage, so I'm surprised he even heard her singing that word, so I think it probably was a test.

So, your alternative would be that he never includes a white person in the concert games like this? Interesting that so many posters have suggested this. It suggested this. It seems that you don't mind "double standards" applied at all; you just don't like white people being put in situations where they have to be held accountable for behaviour. Like I said, the same chain of events has happened to many white people. This happens at concerts. They miss the word out. They make buzzer noises. They say "brother" or another fitting substitute.

"Stupidity." "Naivety." You're skirting around the word ignorant. Ignorant of Kendrick's stance, but more importantly ignorant on modern social issues. Naive about them, if that's what you like to call it. Like I said, in 2018 I don't find that acceptable.

I agree with the OP that the N word should not be used at all.

At some point, a group of black people began to use it between them. Why? Because nothing pissed off racists more than the black people reclaiming the insult. Hearing them refer to one another as a word that stood for hatred, affectionately, casually, was jarring and it inspired attacks and screaming fits from racist white people at the beginning. Because it was their word, and some black people had taken it.

A lot of the older generation of black people didn't like it much either. For them the word represented too much pain. But the younger ones, who had perhaps experienced less, or less potent, racism, enjoyed the power they felt taking the word back. And it spread like wildfire. When you hear a black artist using it in a song, that's them saying, "I've taken this word from you. It's no longer about you." The fact that it is black people using this word as part of pop culture is the very reason it was introduced to pop culture.

White people are not part of that. When people started using the n word, it was shocking and white people wouldn't dream of it unless it was in the original sense. Now the younger generation's view of the n word is more applicable, it's become socially acceptable and fun. So now white people want to use it. And no, they don't get to use it. It was never thrown as them as a slur. They didn't want it when it was a revolution instead of a song lyric. So they don't get it now.

It's historic that the N word is used so liberally. Many groups have reclaimed slurs, but none so successfully. To try and erase that to make it "fair" on people who have historically benefitted from the unfairness is ridiculous and patronising - and pandering.

You still haven't answered my question, rosesandflowers what should the OP have done at that point? Just hum? Or put in another word instead? Please just answer the question.

I'm certainly not saying the N word is racist and beyond the pale. But I think it would have been better not to invite a white person onto the stage, the fact he did suggests he was looking for an argument.

This wasn't him being sexist, FFS. This is why white women are getting a lot of flack recently - because white feminists fail to note that being a woman does not mean you are exempt from making mistakes when it comes to intersectional issues.

Oh for fuck's sake. The poor woman was invited to sing the lyrics. She's a fan of his music, not a fucking graduate in race politics. Give her a break. She probably thought she'd look stupid and middle class if she refused to say the N word. She was in a no win situation.

Do you really think she hates black people, looks down on them, thinks slavery was all A Ok? She's at his fucking concert FFS.

Besides plenty of rap songs written by men use the B word. What's the difference?

Here's an example: "Bitch, don't kill my vibe" sang by ..... Kendrick Lamar!

Oh the hypocrisy!

You still haven't answered my question, rosesandflowers what should the OP have done at that point? Just hum? Or put in another word instead? Please just answer the question.

Like I said, the same chain of events has happened to many white people. This happens at concerts. They miss the word out. They make buzzer noises. They say "brother" or another fitting substitute.

Here's a list of possible things she could have done ... from two comments ago

Oh for fuck's sake. The poor woman was invited to sing the lyrics. She's a fan of his music, not a fucking graduate in race politics. Give her a break. She probably thought she'd look stupid and middle class if she refused to say the N word. She was in a no win situation.

You don't have to be a "graduate in race politics" to be aware that many people find white people saying the n word offensive and it's laughable that anybody would say so.
I find that I would rather appear stupid and middle class (not a way she would have appeared anyway. Like I said, the white people tend to go unnoticed if the word is only used once and are usually greeted with standing ovations for not using it and keeping to the beat in a complicated rap). than ignorant and racist. Which would you rather?

Do you really think she hates black people, looks down on them, thinks slavery was all A Ok? She's at his fucking concert FFS.

Racism is not exclusive to being a leader of the KKK. Racism is not always emulated by pure hatred and often by ignorance. To reduce racism to its most potent form is a tool used to excuse white people from being wilfully ignorant and having their internalised, lesser prejudices excused.

BTW, your suggestion that going to a black guys concert means you can't be racist at all made me laugh out loud. It was perhaps better than "I have black and Asian friends!" from before.

I love hip hop and happily sing along - yet manage to simply stay quiet if the N word comes along! I must be extra gifted and have a degree in race politics!
Or alternatively, I prefer not to use a word that was used in a horrible, pejorative way by fellow white people (and as you all well know, still is).
What I really really fucking hate is the exasperated, 'It's not your word!/she wasn't to know!' attitude. Anyone who listens to Kendrick Lamar should have some basic appreciation of race issues as he covers them quite regularly in his music FFS. Get over the entitlement and use one of the millions of other words that are freely available to us all and won't upset or piss anyone off!

But she didn't really have time to think about it, did she? Yes, it's true that she shouldn't have used the word but she was hardly using the term to insult him, she's a big fan of his, after all.

She could've easily just said nothing when the n-word came up. It's not that hard.

Lizzie48 why would she even need to think about It? White people should just know to not say it.

This isn't race politics. It's fucking common sense and respect for others. It's kind of hilarious when white people kick up a fuss about not being able to say ONE WORD while black people are being told to put up with police brutality.

As a mixed race person I agree with the other poster that regardless of who uses that word it’s not nice. It should be one of those long forgotten words that isn’t used any more and there’s no need for it.

If it's in a song anyone can sing the lyrics. This is what I believe.
If black people don't want it used don't put it in the lyrics!

yet manage to simply stay quiet if the N word comes along!

Easy if you're not listening to a song that has the N word on almost every sentence
I think privately it's fine, publically no.

But she didn't really have time to think about it, did she? Yes, it's true that she shouldn't have used the word but she was hardly using the term to insult him, she's a big fan of his, after all.

I think privately it's fine, publically no.

If we're arguing that this was instinctive and she was used to saying the word when rapping along privately, this is her fault. It was a mistake, but it was her mistake. I think after she said the word ONCE, and the crowd reacted, she should have immediately realized. Definitely after Kendrick mentioned it to her. She shouldn't have become confrontational after he did; THAT'S what makes her look guilty, and what's most embarrassing about this for her, IMO. It shows that she knew she was wrong and hasn't dealt with it gracefully.

Also, if you think that if you rap along in private, you may accidentally say it in public, miss it out in private too - or deal with the consequences. Regardless of your intention, it is still entirely you that is to blame. (BTW, I don't quite buy into this "use it in private, not in public". It's like, yeah, if you're outside you'll offend people, so do it on the sly. It seems like a way to avoid confrontation without actually understanding why it's important not to say it.

It's like, yeah, if you're outside you'll offend people, so do it on the sly.

That's like saying I can't sing the words bitches or whores in private because I might slip up in public, and it's still offensive to women to even say them when nobody is around as the words stem from patriarchal oppression. Whh would you need to censor yourself when you're just chilling at home with your headphones on or whatever? I've not slipped up yet. It's generally quite easy. The same way I don't censor myself when I'm singing an Eminem song and he says "faggot". I'm bisexual myself, wouldn't ever want to say it to anyone and upset them. It's just part of the vibe of the song and you get into it.

((But then I don't sing in public ever so maybe not an issue for me. And I'd never have even got on that stage!))