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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Women who have children before marriage

968 replies

FissionChips · 22/05/2018 01:20

..but get upset when their partner does not want to/ has not asked to marry them , yet still insist they are too traditional to even contemplate asking their dp to marry them or just discussing it like adults.

I dont get it. Most of the complaining women give the child their partners surname as well which isn’t even traditional if the parents are not married. They live together for years. They are in no way following tradition.
AIBU to not understand why they lie about being “traditional “?

OP posts:
Sunshinegirl82 · 23/05/2018 21:27

I'm very glad that you were better off zsazsajuju but you must acknowledge that for someone in different circumstances the outcome would have been different?

It has been made clear over and over and over again that it's not that marriage = good and cohabitation = bad but that people should understand the difference between the two, which would benefit them most and act accordingly.

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 23/05/2018 21:33

There's no guarantee of success when challenging a will zsazsa, no, but the chances are much higher as a spouse and for a lot of cohabitants it will actually be impossible as the test is so narrow. It's important to be clear on this.

Cohabitation without marriage is serving patriarchy well, because cohabiting women as a group aren't doing any less caring labour or experiencing any less caring penalty than married women, nor is there any evidence that they've any more income or assets. But they're doing it without access to the legal and financial protections married women get when they do. This isn't altered by the fact that a minority of women would be financially disadvantaged by marriage. It's about us as a bloc.

The fact that you don't like a fact doesn't make stating it goady toomany.

lily2403 · 23/05/2018 21:34

How about minding your own business, what other people feel and think is nothing to do with you

PoorYorick · 23/05/2018 21:38

I haven't seen a single post slating single parents.

NamedyChangedy · 23/05/2018 21:40

I'm no Xenia but let's just say I'd be significantly worse off financially if I got married too.

My DP who I love very much is financially irresponsible, always has been. We get round it by moving a chunk of his salary at source into the joint account, and we also have a Byzantine arrangement of wills, trusts, life insurance etc.

I own our main home because back when we were buying he had a terrible credit rating that no lender would touch, so he's been paying 50% of my mortgage for nearly a decade. If anything he should be clamouring to get married to me - we've said we might do at some point but it hasn't been a priority for either of us.

The only reason I would even consider getting married is the deeply romantic reason of IHT - even for a modest terraced house in a London suburb we'd be seriously stung if I died first.

But yes, everyone's circumstances are different. I wouldn't presume to know what's best for someone else, without an awful lot of information.

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 23/05/2018 21:43

You wouldn't be the first to marry for IHT reasons namedy and doubt you'd be the last!

CharlotteLV · 23/05/2018 21:44

I have two children with my partner of 18 years, but we're not married. My dear old Grandmother, who disapproved of us even living together, once asked me: 'Why would he buy the cow if he can get the milk for free?' I wish I'd had the courage to reply 'Why would I buy the pig if I can get the sausage for free?'

ToEarlyForDecorations · 23/05/2018 21:49

It just makes me smile that people live together as a couple because they've got all the answers and are far to cool to fall for all that marriage shit.

Until the wheels fall off............

adaline · 23/05/2018 21:54

The only reason I would even consider getting married is the deeply romantic reason of IHT

It's one of the reasons we're getting married too! IHT and widowed parents' allowance should the worst happen to one of us. Of course I don't want to think like that, but having had it happen to a mutual who wasn't married - I really don't want to be in her position if it goes wrong.

She was unmarried and unable to claim any widowed parents' allowance from the government, and she had no claim on his workplace pension either. Luckily they rented a council house and she was close to his family, as otherwise she would have been in even more trouble!

PoorYorick · 23/05/2018 22:06

IHT exemption is an excellent reason to get married.

Xenia · 23/05/2018 22:11

About 8% of people are rich enough to be subject to inheritance tax.

LoniceraJaponica · 23/05/2018 22:12

It seems that the best reasons to get married are deepy unromantic.

Bluelady · 23/05/2018 22:17

Of course they're unromantic. Marriage is a legal contract.

PoorYorick · 23/05/2018 22:18

Marriage isn't romantic. Why do so many people think it is?

LoniceraJaponica · 23/05/2018 22:31

Because some people get married because they love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together.

OH and I got married nearly 37 years ago for this reason only, and we are still together. People lie us still exist.

adayatthebeach · 23/05/2018 22:32

Ok I read a few responses my two cents worth comment is that it seems not being married letting the children come first causes pain for women much too often. Not getting married because it cost too much? Children aren’t cheap! I don’t get it but I’m from a older generation. Glad I don’t have to be young again!

LoniceraJaponica · 23/05/2018 22:33

"Not getting married because it cost too much?"

That's just an excsue from people who want a "wedding" rather than want to get married.

PoorYorick · 23/05/2018 22:35

It's a good starting point, but ultimately it's a legal contract. You can very legally get married without loving each other and hating each other doesn't dissolve a marriage on its own.

Which is why it makes my head hurt when anti-marriagers say they won't marry because they don't need it to 'prove their love'. As if that's its purpose.

jade9390 · 23/05/2018 22:38

What century do you live in? Are you rich? Not everyone wants to be married, can afford it or prefer to spend their money on fun things like holidays instead of an expensive dress they will only wear once. With high housing costs and wages not matching them, most people prefer to use 1000's as a deposit on a house rather than a wedding, or are simply just keeping a roof over their heads.
It is not about self esteem. You do not need marriage or even a man to have self esteem. Feminism happened, some people do not even want a man or husband but want children and have no intention of ever getting married. Women are having children later in life and do not have time for long engagements, saving up or even time to find Mr Perfect, which can take forever, so will do with Mr Right now or sperm bonation, just to have children.

PoorYorick · 23/05/2018 22:39

Not everyone wants to be married

True and fair enough.

can afford it

Nah, bollocks. It costs around £220.

or prefer to spend their money on fun things like holidays instead of an expensive dress they will only wear once.

How many holidays do you get for circa £220? And do you need to wear an expensive dress to get married?

LoniceraJaponica · 23/05/2018 22:43

"Not everyone wants to be married, can afford it"

If you don't want to be married then don't get married. It costs less than £200 to get married round here. You don't need an expensive dress and a big party you know Hmm

Bluelady · 23/05/2018 22:44

Oh Jade, rtft.

lozster · 23/05/2018 22:47

The most important thing is to be aware of the facts and how they relate to your personal situation. It isn’t only cohabitees who have misconceptions about their legal status and entitlements, it is married people too. On this thread alone there is a pp saying that being married gives you WPA - that’s gone now replaced by a lump sum and an 18 month maximum allowance. Plus eligibility is NI related so you might not be covered anyway. This benefit is under review too and may go entirely or revert to the child rather than the parent. Someone else has already pointed out the myth of ‘next of kin’, someone else the fact that a married partner can make a will that disinherits the spouse and Xenia also pointed out how few people IH is actually applicable to. One final one too - if you die intestate the entire estate does not necessarily automatically go to the spouse so marriage isn’t an alternative to a will.

Most of this is a red herring anyway. The realquestion for women should be ‘how can I best protect myself against future change?’ The answer for me has always been to be as independent as possible and ensure that I can earn a living for myself and my child.

LemurintheSun · 23/05/2018 23:21

YABU. What makes you think it hasn't been discussed "like adults". Women are still often in a weaker position in relationships, because their reproductive life is more limited and there is a pay gap. Men are less likely to want to marry, on average. They are not brought up/told by the media to dream about the big day in the same way, and generally have less interest in all the trappings - the clothes, the flowers, all that. If a woman knows her man doesn't want to marry, she may not wish to throw in a good relationship with an otherwise caring and responsible man in order to go look for one who will marry her. To do so may, depending on age & desirability, be to gamble away her entire reproductive chance in life. We don't all have queues of willing suitors lining up to propose to us. Having a child together is a huge and life-changing responsibility - far more so than marriage, which I have seen fall apart in weeks on occasion. It often leads to marriage, if not always the big white wedding kind, because the responsible man can see the point in protecting his wife when he realises what childbirth/child-raising has cost her. Of course, from a woman's point-of-view it would be far safer to do it the other way around. But it is unrealistic to suppose that is always an option the woman can achieve, or, fortunately, that the man will always prove to be a bounder.

browneyes77 · 23/05/2018 23:21

and I would prefer to live in a country to marry or not to marry to invoke that protection. Its çalled freedom of choice

@Helpmeplan Ooookay so I simply put “I agree” to another comment and you decide to direct your snarky comment at me rather than the person who actually posted the original comment I merely agreed with? Very strange!