To be offended by this review?

[dolgellau]

AIBU to be offended on behalf of my staff.

I run a business in Welsh speaking Wales. It serves the public who are mainly tourists. Every single worker in the business speaks Welsh and all daily happenings and running of the business is through Welsh.

We have been left a bad review with low score as “staff speaking welsh between themselves”.

The only situation I can see this arising is if a customer orders in English (or French to some staff) staff will chat with the customers needs in English. Then to relay the knowledge to someone to work on the order will say it in Welsh to the other worker; the language that comes most naturally to them. This isn’t the case of excluding the customer but to just get the process done.

Even if the staff were gossiping between another;
How would said reviewer know that they weren’t discussing work related issues?

Notaregular penguin: But they were talking English in England. Like when I go to France I try and speak French. Would you expect them to talk English in Pakistan?

When in Rome do as the romans do. I don't see what the issue is really. If the punters come to you and you are in Welsh speaking Wales then what do they expect? It's authentic.
I'm from Chester. In Chester, we often had Welsh visitors coming who speak welsh. Meh. It's a non nit picking issue.

DTDYA

(Dwyt ti ddim yn anrhesymol)

Wales; Know your place! If there is an English person in the room, even if they are not directly involved in your conversation and are nothing to do with you, it is your duty to speak in their native tongue, because yours is offensive to their ears.

If only we could bring back the Welsh Not, that would sort all this silliness.

I really do wish that the English were taught some welsh history, and how they actively tried to destroy welsh culture and language. It wasn’t laziness that brought about the decline. My English husband was really shocked by how little he knew. It’s not an impossible language to learn. I know many English people who have, it’s a very logical language (unlike English).

Anyway, the staff did nothing wrong. Whilst everyone speaks English, the assumptions made about easy fluency amongst first language welsh people are huge. Communication in work is important, and I would expect staff to use the most efficient method.

I like the reply about location being in wales. Says all that needs to be said.

It does depend what they were speaking about - passing orders, totally fine, chatting about customers, not on.

Given that there are very few occasions where everybody in a large group would speak Welsh if the ‘speak English if not everyone speaks Welsh rule’

I think it depends here - if it's like a party, then little breakouts of a second language among small groups is to be expected, but in every country I've lived in, if someone who only spoke one language joined the chatting group, we'd switch to that language (I have, in my time, spoken 3 languages well enough to chat, and a few more to at least listen enough to participate a bit)

Why the supreme arrogance of the English only speaker who assumes everyone should accommodate them wherever they go?

Everywhere I go for work, people are like one of the other posters described - including people if they only speak one language, and kind, and polite as described above. I don't personally see the point in intentionally excluding people just because you can either.

I'd just respond stating that the business is in wales and the staff are welsh.

Some disgusting responses here. Reviewer writes a stupid, offensive and discriminatory review and the replies are "Are you sure they weren't being hostile?" "It's not welcoming to speak Welsh" and even the stupid "Englishman walked into a pub and they all turned to speaking Welsh" argument.

Newsflash: Some welsh people are arsehats

It’s almost as though they are actual humans

It doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t speak in their own language, even if you don’t like it.

They’re even allowed to speak English, and then switch to welsh if they fancy it. Arsehats might do it to be arsehats, nice people might do it as an additional layer of privacy.

We go on holiday every year to somewhere very close to Dolgallau , lovely part of the world, I can't understand anyone being offended because a Welsh person is speaking Welsh in Wales. I did have the experience of someone in a shop assuming I was also Welsh and so started to speak to me in Welsh, apparently I don't look like a tourist.

@happystrummer of course I wouldn't expect people in Pakistan to speak English unless they wanted to.

When I go to France I try and converse in French. But if a French person in England was struggling to communicate in English or didn't speak English I would happily speak in French to them even though we're in England. I wouldn't just think bollocks it's their problem for not understanding.

I have a Welsh breed of sheep. Last year I went to Wales to a breed sale. The auctioneer switched from Welsh to English throughout. It was a mixture of charming and quite intriguing. What was he saying? Did it affect the sale? God knows.

A lot of English people genuinely seem to believe that the Welsh language isn't real; that it's an elaborate trick made up to annoy them and make them feel uncomfortable and "like we're not in England" (no shit). They get so offended because they don't believe that people actually go back to their homes after work and speak Welsh to their families, or to each other in the shops or at the school gates. . Really stupid Anglophones often seem to feel this way about larger languages like French and Spanish as well, and leave irate reviews about staff who they're sure could have spoken English if they weren't deliberately trying to be unwelcoming. It's not a good look...

TBH a couple of random strangers having a conversation in their first language isn't going to spoil my holiday , not unless it is accompanied by much laughing and pointing and a written translation delivered to my table with the bill

Do you think people get confused by UK and England ? The UK is made up of 4 individual countries surely , England being only one of them. I sometimes wonder if it is the English grimly trying to hold on to what is left of an empire?

If they didn't want Welsh soaking staff they shouldn't have gone to Wales then. Wankers.

I love wenglish,
I remember hearing a woman on the train.

Welsh, welsh,
BONDAGE
Welsh welsh welsh
FUCKING PRICK
Welsh welsh welsh
Drinks Saturday?

It was amazing 😂😂😂 I can understand bits of welsh but being offended about this is ridiculous.
They're probably the kind of people who whinge that signs in Spain are in Spanish

Perhaps the customer felt that by accepting the order in English and relaying it in Welsh you were denying them the final chance to pick up on a mistake?

Or more likely chatting amongst themselves pretty much looks the same in Welsh or English.

I'm Welsh. I was born here and have lived here all my life, but I have a neutral accent due to years of elocution lessons and living in a multicultural area.

When I moved West, I experienced the switching of conversation from English to Welsh and the hissing of, "Sais". Pubs, fairly often, shops sometimes. It's rather amusing to then order in Welsh.

Also, I'm a teacher. When we have non-Welsh speaking students or supply teachers at the school, the conversation in the staff room which is usually in English will turn to Welsh if they are present. I think it's quite rude, as it's not the norm, so is clearly because of the new "staff" in the room.

I make sure I chat to them in English and try and make them feel more comfortable.

Anyway, my point is, it DOES happen, quite frequently in my experience.

Okay, genuinely curious. Those of you who say you've experienced Welsh speakers switching from English as soon as you enter - why do you imagine they do this? If privacy/deliberate rudeness surely they'd need to know that you can't understand Welsh? In an area where many people speak Welsh as a first language how do you think they can tell? Do you carry a sign?

I grew up in a very Welsh speaking area, to parents who don't speak a word of it. I don't have a Welsh accent but am supposedly pretty good in the language.

I have never, EVER, come across people switching to Welsh for the sole purpose of pissing off an English speaker. Sometimes people slip into Welsh almost by mistake - such as one time I was having dinner with some friends and my French husband, who only knows three words of Welsh. They weren't being rude, it was just 'pass me the salt please, Gwenda', between two people who would find it unnatural to speak English to each other. He wouldn't have expected them to attempt it in French either! I would expect, and often see, exactly the same thing when I'm in France with French people.

It's hardly being rude and sorry, but it really is only the English who think we do it just to annoy them.

Welsh is absolutely full of the odd English word, and we do often flit between the two mid-sentence, perhaps for emphasis, because English just has a better word for that situation, or, in my case, you just can't remember the Welsh word. Swear words are a good example - 'cer i'r diawl' doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well as a good old 'f*ck off'

DTDYA OP, cario 'mlaen fel wyt ti, mae na llawer o gymorth yma i ti!

Perhaps if tourists dislike hearing the Welsh language spoken they should avoid taking a holiday in Wales?

I'm old enough to remember the strong Welsh Nationalist feelings in the late 70's & early 80's quite clearly. The changing from English to Welsh when an English person walked into an establishment was common then, as was the arson of holiday homes.

My father's best friend was of Welsh stock though had spent much of his life in England, so when he set up his own company he chose Wales to boost employment - his factory was burned down because he was English, putting over 100 local Welsh people out of work.

So there is, or has been, a fair bit of prejudice against English people coming into Wales. On the other hand, I can remember being told about Welsh children being forced to speak only English in school & concerns that the Welsh language may die down completely, and the massive change it was when official signs were allowed to be in both languages not just English, so I can understand some of the resentment.

That said, I think the customer was being ridiculous!

I am a Welsh speaker, but my family are not as DH is English.

A lot of English people seem to be under the impression the Welsh language is made up, some kind of gimmick for tourists and seem genuinely surprised when they discover that people really do speak in Welsh with their families/at work/having sex etc.

As PP have said, would you give a bad review to a cafe in France, who welcome English tourists, speak to them in English, but then revert to French amongst the staff while they are getting your order ready. Of course you bloody wouldn't. It's the Anglophile "We are more important than you" mentality.

OP- YANBU

If you run a business bad reviews are just a part of the job. Every business, good and bad, receives negative reviews. You need a thick skin if you work in that kind of industry.

Have to agree. Bad reviews and complaints etc are a pretty basic part of running a business. When running ANY business, a thick skin is pretty essential, whether it's a bad review, a customer not paying, being supplied faulty goods and having to give refunds - you just to have resilience to cope with whatever is thrown at you.

I do have a few friends where our understanding of English and Welsh are equal, but our spoken preference is different. It must blow their minds to hear one person speaking English and the other Welsh.

There genuinely are lots of welsh people around here whose spoken English is quite poor, because they rarely need it. Expecting those people to communicate unnaturally to please the ignorant is the height of bad manners.