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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a manipulative man can change?

54 replies

clubtropicanaa · 20/05/2018 10:42

I love my DH greatly: 95% of the time he is a wonderful husband and father (not my DCs).
But he can be emotionally abusive and manipulative, he's used to being in charge at work and he finds it difficult that it doesn't carry over to home (I am v assertive and headstrong).
I recognize when he is displaying his gaslighting/manipulative behaviors and flag them to him because I find it unacceptable. When he calms down he agrees. He has improved in the last year that he has been behaving this way - we have done six weeks of couples counseling that helped.
My friends think I am mad to stay with a man who is so obviously flawed, but when we're good this is the best relationship I've ever been in.
In your experience, AIBU to stay and expect him to work hard to change?

OP posts:
YoucancallmeVal · 20/05/2018 10:47

Yeah, you are. Never going to change. Likely to get worse.

Bananalanacake · 20/05/2018 10:48

What I've learnt on mn is you can't change anyone. You can only change how you react to them.

Shoxfordian · 20/05/2018 10:51

You're being unrealistic but it's up to you how much shit you want to put up with

Costacoffeeplease · 20/05/2018 10:53

He changes, but then it creeps back in again, so he goes on his best behaviour and then lapses back into the real him

He won’t change, he’ll probably start blaming you for ‘nagging’ and you’ll start to doubt yourself, and in 5 years time you’ll wonder how you lost your confidence and became so ground down by him

ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo · 20/05/2018 10:55

Well the question is, why would you want him to? Why would you want to have a relationship with someone who could decide to be emotionally abusive and manipulative to you, the person who. He claims to love enough to share his home and life with? Do you not think that’s quite a fucked up person who would choose to treat someone they say they love like that?

Foxysoxy10 · 20/05/2018 10:57

Well anyone be can change if they want it bad enough but they have to want it.

TBH it sounds like if you hadn’t pulled him up on his behaviour he would’ve carried on which doesn’t bode well for self reflection or empathy.

If he had recognised his behaviour was unreasonable and spent time working out why and how to change off his own back then maybe it would be more likely for him to change/want to change.

As it is, honestly it sounds like he is just going along with it to stop you nagging.

I think unless he recognised and wanted to change off his own back his controlling behaviour towards you will just manifest in different ways. For example he may stop talking over you because you have moaned enough about it or ‘reminded’ him but instead he will start walking away before you’ve finished talking etc etc.

Original poster
clubtropicanaa · 20/05/2018 10:57

You're right - in my heart of hearts I know I'm a massive fool for even considering it. It's absolutely ridiculous that I still love him after the ways he's treated me.
I think to get over it I need to stop considering the possibility of him 'getting better' and just move on with my life.

OP posts:
Original poster
clubtropicanaa · 20/05/2018 11:02

@Foxysoxy10 he genuinely doesn't believe there's anything wrong with the way he behaves. He was brought up in a very dysfunctional family situation and this seems to be how they all treat each other. His few relationships have perpetuated the behaviour.
I've been married before to someone I'm still on great terms with so the fact he can treat someone he says he loves this way horrifies me. I can't live my life with someone who doesn't recognize emotional abuse. Yet I still love him. The heart makes no sense.

OP posts:
ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo · 20/05/2018 11:14

he genuinely doesn't believe there's anything wrong with the way he behaves

So why on earth would he change?? He thinks he is right. You are wrong. So why would he change?

DextroDependant · 20/05/2018 11:17

He won't change, he might be on best behaviour for a few weeks at a time but if he doesn't think he is wrong why would he want to change.

ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo · 20/05/2018 11:19

OP don’t mistake social conditioning for love. Women are massively conditioned to a) find a man and marry him and b) excuse and tolerate all his shit because it’s better than being single. There is also the bollocks about marriage being for life and love lasting forever etc. Don’t let guilt from social conditioning keep you in an abusive relationship. You don’t owe him or society your love or companionship. You owe yourself honesty and respect. Listen to your own instincts.

gamerwidow · 20/05/2018 11:19

he genuinely doesn't believe there's anything wrong with the way he behaves
Then he is never going to change. You need to listen to your head not your heart and leave.

Pa1oma · 20/05/2018 11:22

In what ways is he emotionally abusive OP?

Original poster
clubtropicanaa · 20/05/2018 11:25

@ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo this is right - outwardly OH is a huge 'catch' and I am wondering if I should put up and shut up because of the good things he offers. I was on my own for 4 years before I met him so the friends and family who don't know about the way he behaves have been ecstatically happy that I have met someone of such high standing.
I really do know that there is no amount of security/handsomeness/money to make up for emotional abuse, though.

OP posts:
Original poster
clubtropicanaa · 20/05/2018 11:31

@Pa1oma he is very controlling, does not like me seeing male friends and if I do 'defy' him I get anger followed by the silent treatment. Will not tolerate me wearing low cut/short outfits and again, get the anger then silent treatment. He lives with me half the time and the other half he is at home with adult DCs - I am not allowed to his house because it makes them feel uncomfortable. He gets cross if I am with people he doesn't know or have conversations I don't then recount to him. When he's upset with me he embarrasses me by talking about things I've told him in confidence in a derogatory way.
He's never been physically violent towards me but has used his size and the power of his anger to physically intimidate me a couple of times.

OP posts:
Original poster
clubtropicanaa · 20/05/2018 11:33

@gamerwidow I know this... I am clutching at straws hoping someone will tell me it will all be ok but I know it won't, and to be safe and happy I have to leave

OP posts:
KataraJean · 20/05/2018 11:34

The thing is, the good bits are what keeps you in the relationship, this man is not stupid. But working out when he is gaslighting/manipulating/psychologically abusing is draining and it is not your responsibility to point this out to him. That monopolises your time and that is not fair on you, because you could use that brain space for other things.

I do understand the mixed feelings, I left an emotionally abusive, controlling marriage, but what I miss is the way marriage could have been, not how it was. xH was also sexually abusive so there is a level of trauma which means I cannot go back, because I find it hard to even talk to him. But if he had been a nice, decent husband, which he had the potential to be, then yes, we would still be together. That is not how it was, though.

It’s the difference between how it could be, and how it is. You have glimpses of what it could be, that is what keeps you - but really that is not how it is, and you know that.

Notamorningperson84 · 20/05/2018 11:37

You know what you need to.

Change the locks and tell him it's over. You deserve better.

Storm4star · 20/05/2018 11:37

The problem is the longer you stay, the more you get sucked in. So that if it does turn violent, which it may well, it’s actually even harder to leave.

You said he doesn’t live with you full time. What would happen if, when he starts acting this way, you said something like “go home. You can come back when you can treat me with respect”?

Foxysoxy10 · 20/05/2018 11:40

Well from your later posts it clearly sounds like a wonderful relationship with a really great man! God knows why you wouldn’t try ‘fixing’ him.

Obviously that was sarcasm and I think you need to work out why your self esteem is allowing you to stay with a man like this.

It’s his fault for being a controlling shit but you need to take some responsibility that you are allowing him to be a controlling shit to you.

It’s sad that because he is attractive/loaded/has social standing you are willing to have a relationship with an abusive man (even under the disguise of trying to ‘fix’ him)

DragonMummy1418 · 20/05/2018 11:41

Yes people can absolutely change their behaviour.

It takes a lot of effort, time and help though.

Has he sought help?

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 20/05/2018 11:45

'He lives with me half the time and the other half he is at home with adult DCs - I am not allowed to his house because it makes them feel uncomfortable'

Even if he did want to change his controlling behaviour, I don't think he likes you very much. You've had relationships in the past with people who did like you - you know it's possible.

Original poster
clubtropicanaa · 20/05/2018 11:52

@Foxysoxy10 that's not why I'm with him - he's kind, clever, funny and affectionate when he wants to be. It's just those are the traits he displays outwardly which makes it hard to leave, in always being told how lucky I am to have such a wonderful man and he echoes this in private. I have a city finance job so am no slouch either - I don't rely on him for anything

OP posts:
Original poster
clubtropicanaa · 20/05/2018 11:58

@DragonMummy yes, we did couples counselling but I always felt like he was humouring or gaming our therapist. He said all the right things in-session but nothing changed from his POV. It helped me recognise the wrongs and rights of what he does, though.

OP posts:
SuperLoudPoppingAction · 20/05/2018 12:00

Have you read 'Why does he do that'? It covers that easy way of relating to a therapist that abusive men slip into.

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