To wonder how the hell drs, nurses and surgeons cope with dealing with death and emotional distressing situations as a regular occurance

[LardLizard]

Like the ones that work in areas of high stress like surgery or a and e etc

My sister is a nurse in A&E. It has definitely hardened her to a certain extent. She is caring and compassionate and very good at her job, although she can recount in a matter of fact way incidents at her work which bring tears to my eyes. But she wouldn’t be able to do her job if she broke down in tears all the time. She has supportive colleagues with whom she is very close and I think this gives her a lot of strength. We as her family try to be supportive and patient when she is tired or has had a bad shift.

When I think about all the people like my sister, and many of the people on this thread, I feel so grateful that there are people out there who will do these difficult jobs for quite limited financial recognition. Thank you to you all.

I've been an ITU nurse. I would never say that by I detached. Ever. But compartmentalisation is essential, because our patients need us to perform at our best for them, right to the end, whether that is by trying to save their lives, or by giving them the best and most dignified death possible, or sometimes both simultaneously, and we do that at the same time as liaising with a confused, distressed and conflicted family, who can't bear to see their relative suffer, but feel an acute sense of betrayal if they 'give up on them'.

So, we must develop a relationship of trust and confidence, compassion and care, preserving hope but communicating the reality of a desperately grave situation, so that when the time comes that no more can be done, relatives, and often patients, are in a position that they are ready to hear it, and can accept the news that no one wants to give, and no one wants to receive. There is great reward in knowing that you did the best that could be done at the end of someone's natural life.

Now, I don't work clinically, so although I'm still in the area, I am not tied to any one patient. I always try to make sure that I stop to talk to relatives waiting in the corridor, or entering/leaving the unit. It makes a difference.

Also love nemo's post. Totally spot on

I know greys anatomy, and holby et al have created the stereotype of detached staff, the egotistical surgeon, the serial shaggers,the drama
And it all makes great viewing,but that’s what it is,high expressed emotional drama
In rl, most folk rub along alright,no drama,no affairs, a big deal is usually who drunk the milk

I agree with starting at 18, back in the day I lived in a nurses home with all the other teenage nurses, no uni so you were immersed in the life and started full time ward work after 6 weeks in the school.

Times change

I think it also depends upon your own experiences. I have had the police knocking st my door telling me my dd was very badly injured abroad and a consul official who couldn’t tell not if she would survive. As a nurse I concluded she was already dead and they stressed staging the bad news. She survived.

I became too emotionally involved after this at work and changed career.

You can be empathetic and supportive but you can’t be a sponge or you collapse and are not a good HCP

Lougle you have my greatest respect and sincere thanks that people like you exist.

I can only speak from the experience of dc1's life-threatening illness (in remission but it hangs over us), and my df's death.
In the first case, all of the staff were tremendously helpful, from the specialist down. If they could help in any way (despite a truculent teenager), they did.
In the second, the ITU staff were so kind and thoughtful that my family were all very grateful for the help they gave.

This has been a very insightful thread. Nemo my baby is a neonate (diagnosed with a very rare genetic condition in the end, not life limiting thankfully) and the staff who looked after her - and me - were nothing short of majestic!

Other than those who work in hospices, I imagine death is the exception not the rule IE the majority of patients who ICU Drs and nurses / paramedics deal with will survive?

If be interested to hear how often drs / nurses on the frontline and paramedics deal with a death? I am guessing it's the fact that the majority of patients surivie which spurs them on?

For some people this is the worst day of their lives, yet you can make a real difference if you do it well. In a strange way I find that really rewarding

^^yes. There is a responsibility & pride involved at a challenging time,and trying to undertake an intervention that is meaningful & significant. Knowing what to do,knowing process,and all trying to do right thing

BryanAdams

Bloody hell your post made me well up too.,well done you being there

I'm a nurse, I think the day I emotionally detach is the day I leave the profession.
I work a lot with survivors of sexual and gender based violence. The stories are horrifying but my patients are pretty much unanimously awe inspiringly brave. It would be a kick in the teeth for those amazing (mainly) women to be shut down when they open up.
The fact that I can help helps, if I lose my shit I can't help. Its my job, its what I trained for, its what people come to me for so I just do cope. I'm pretty lucky I'm part of a good team and we do offload to each other.

Lipstick

Big deal is who drunk the milk. so true and which diet endlessly which diet are we trying now

I have never encountered a single member of staff in an acute healthcare setting who has been anything other than compassionate, present and dedicated. I'm a very nervous patient and have been treated with such respect despite ultimately being a total wuss about things that are completely routine which must be very frustrating for the staff. But I'm always made to feel like my concerns are valid, they care and they will do anything they can to help. I am in awe of people who are able to give themselves to the most stressful jobs there are and do them with such kindness and responsibility. Thank you to everyone on this thread who does so - I don't know how you do it but I'm so grateful that you do.

I work in a very stressful, paediatric environment.
I definitely don't emotionally detach, what my team see isn't normal and it's hard to be balanced at times. Worse since having children, they get extra tight hugs sometimes.

I do try and avoid extra emotional distress, ie harrowing news stories, need to self protect somehow...

DH also works in a critical field and begged me not to mention the case in the news. He can’t take it.
Asa former NICU Mum I have seen doctors and nurses cry with parents as their babies passed away. I saw a doctor pray with the parents (on their invitation...they both belonged to the same minority faith). I found it very moving.

I think it’s a myth that you get hardened. We find easier ways of dealing with it, I suppose, but after 18 years I still go and sob my heart out in the office. You need to remember sometimes that it’s not your grief, it’s the family’s and hold it together for their sake. Having said that, I once spent a whole weekend looking after a family as they lost first one, and then another, hoping against hope that they wouldn’t lose another life. You have to have a heart of lead not to be affected by that, and the whole department, from consultants down to care assistants shed tears before we got back into character and carried on looking after that family. I work 70 miles from my home and by the time I get home I’ve worked out my emotions by shouting at the universe at the unfairness of life. Being a biker means nobody can see or hear you- it reduces the raised eyebrows.

Fuck yea,the milk dramas, who used whom cup.
the latest Mad diet. Apple vinegar is so last year. Kafir is where it’s at
The time someones dinner was scoffed,and the empty Tupperware returned to fridge. That’s brutal. Ate the dinner, then popped empty tub back.ouch

Crunchy As a paramedic I deal with death sometimes several times in a shift but then will sometimes go a few shifts with no deaths. It is totally unpredictable.

In my career to date I’ve dealt with 5 paediatric arrests none of which survived.

Thanks @Ohmydayslove Sadly I'm not so good with children which is why I'm studying Adult Field. I had a day in NICU. A 7 hour shift and I was doing well until I sat with a mum who told me her story. I spent 5 minutes sobbing in the loo and then washing my face (I'm an ugly crier).

I eventually realised that I was so overwhelmed by what I was seeing that my flight response kicked in and I had to ask to leave early. My mentor for the day understood and let me go.

I'm not proud of that. In fact I'm mortified still about it. Leaving a shift early ...

Truth is I can deal with a death of an adult patient who has had some form of a life. But those tiny little fragile babies..can't do it.

We do debrief, as staff groups. Especially if there is a particularly tough incident. Despite media reports, there is a pretty good support system within the work structure, and if there is a difficult situation that involves several staff members, then 'talking sessions' are arranged over a number of days, to allow staff to work through the feelings/emotions/issues it brought up for them personally and professionally, so that they can move on and not be affected by it in ongoing patient care.

Former PICU and NICU nurse, also stints in A and E.
What helped me to cope was knowing that I'd done my absolute best and that included affording my patient and their family as much dignity, respect and privacy as possible in terms of end of life care.
There were many times I was fighting back tears but as others have said, it wasn't my grief. I was there to support the family as much as I could and do anything at all to support them.
Some of my closest friends are nurses that I trained with and even although we are all doing different things now, there is a bond between us which is absolutely unshakeable.
There was no such thing as staff counselling in those days - not sure if there's much of that now.
The support ( and humour) from these friendships sustained me during some very stressful events and I was fortunate in working with some outstanding nurses and medics.
It was also a privilege to work with so many incredible families whose strength and courage helped me to do the best I could - does that make sense ?
Some nurses became very hardened to the job, some drank too much. It was definitely time for them to 'get out'.
Working in these kind of areas, definitely gave me a different perspective on life - I often came home and hugged my husband and children just a little bit tighter.
I've never taken anything for granted.

Omg!!! I remember circa 1984!! Mince gate!! My mate was cooking mince we left the kitchen for a few minutes and it was knicked!! No trace just fat. There were about 7 kitchens in our vast nurses home which had been a Victorian work house (ironic) case never solved.

Crunchy, death is not unusual in many areas of healthcare. It is a natural part of the end of life and frequently comes earlier than people would like.

One of the benefits of a frontline job is I am very aware of how precious and fragile life is but also of the difficulties that many, many people face in life.

Of course it depends on the speciality but it is certainly not the exception in many areas. I see it frequently and vary rarely am I in a hospice environment.

As PP have said, you can make a difference to that patient and their family in the most awful of times and make it a tiny tiny tiny bit less shit.

Nursing or doctoring, paramedic, firefighter: I suspect I could emotionally cope with the seeing people in distress. In those roles, You know you can do things to help (most the time) and that help will be much appreciated and you trained hard to get the skills to deliver the help. Most the time, it's nobody's fault that they are ill or injured.

It's social work, and maybe prison/police I couldn't cope with. Seeing people make so many terrible decisions. Again and again. Be victims of crime & be victims of the terrible situation they came out of thus they did the crime. That would depress me hugely. I just read a book about injustice in Alabama: eek. So being a criminal defense attorney in a place like that where folk have such awful ideas about what justice is, another job I couldn't do. I'm not tough enough for the awful things humans do.

debrief formally and informally
External facilitators have come in
And when I to court get specialist briefing