Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Influencer ethics on Instagram 2

999 replies

MadameGrizzly · 16/05/2018 09:37

It appears we haven't quite finished workshopping the ethical issues of 'influencing' on Instagram: disclose of advertising, the exploitation of minors and the similarities to MLM schemes.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
lastnightidreamtofpotatoes · 18/05/2018 11:51

Just enjoy your baby and step away from the insta addiction

To be fair to her since I started following her (only about 6 months) she always maintained it is a job for her, she needed the money etc. I think she said a few times that when they had Esme they were poor, so now she is not afraid to ask for money in return for ads. That was was of her main selling points for me, her brutal honesty about what she was doing and I felt she was doing it well. That is why I am genuinely miffed as to why she now seems to be for shutting up critique, whilst critiquing things herself.

Boredandtired · 18/05/2018 11:52

@cadyheron I completely agree that people shouldn't expect to be targeted because they put themselves out there on social media, but what the hell are they doing? These are all people doing the same thing. Yesterday this lady is out there swearing about being kind to each other and stepping away and the next day she's bearing her soul to thousands of followers. For all the critism mumsnet was getting, Instagram is a vile world, anyone who has an opinion is subjected to unpleasant private messages and bullying posts. Half of these accounts seem to feed it, then complain about it. They seem completely unadvised and ill prepared to deal with the platforms they've got themselves on.
Interesting too how instead of the focus being 'evil' mumsnetters, the real side on Instagram is coming out, which is essentially why all the discussion has been taking place over here.

Boredandtired · 18/05/2018 11:53

@lastnightidreamtofpotatoes I've not followed her it's just how I felt watching. That baby seems so small. It's just so sad to see.

SpringSprangSprung · 18/05/2018 12:00

@CadyHeron - possibly I am over invested but, as the mother of older teenagers and teacher of young adults, I see Insta stories like these being played out both in my home and at work regularly. I guess I subscribe to the keep your friends close and your enemies closer school of thinking. But, no, I don't follow them, only look at them - am off to check out therealjuliabradbury and stevebackshall though.

Boredandtired · 18/05/2018 12:02

*Today 11:47 CadyHeron

Bored - I read "it's not access all areas" to mean just because they choose to share their family life doesn't mean that automatically means open season to pull them apart personally or send abuse.*

I do agree, however I still stand by being very careful what and how much you share. Many accounts successfully don't put themselves at such intimate personal risk of attack. The few accounts being discussed appear to me to completely overshare their lives and are making themselves open to attack. I hope that reads as I intend, I'm not saying they deserve it.
Don't want your marriage discussed-don't discuss you partner in a personal way
Don't want your work choice discussed- be careful what you share
Don't want to be called out on hypocrisy- don't send bitchy dms
Don't want people privately messaging you- don't wade into online battles trying to shut down discussion and instructing people to be kind
When you make money off your followers be respectful.
If you are careful what you shareyou hugely reduce your risk of being discussed or targeted. There are many ways of reducing your exposure whilst still being an influencer and blogger.

lastnightidreamtofpotatoes · 18/05/2018 12:03

Actually bored of late there has been a change in her whole demeanor, I hope she is ok. She has been talking a lot about how something has to give, she is so busy with work and feels she is neglecting her dc. I do fear she has fallen down the 'instamum' rabbit hole ever so slightly, with all of this 'positivity' and 'we are all in this together'. I absolutely cannot believe the mute comment she made. Where is the CB who calls it out and says it like it is?

Boredandtired · 18/05/2018 12:08

@lastnight I'm sorry-I genuinely have only seen her a couple of times, last time was when something had happened too and her stories were promoted. I like the sound of someone open about why they are doing what they do etc and maybe now is not the right time to stumble across her.

Stopyourhavering64 · 18/05/2018 12:14

I follow thebucketlistfamily for pure escapism and to see which country they go to next!...I admire them for being able to travel the world with such a young family! ( they do lots of charity work too )
obviously helps that you've sold an App for millions
Also following Ben fogle, who has just summited Everest...amazing photos there too

FlyingBird · 18/05/2018 12:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FlyingBird · 18/05/2018 12:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TireSwing · 18/05/2018 12:29

@FlyingBird - interesting take on it. I don't disagree with you but I have been feeling really uncomfortable since watching CB's stories that this discussion is making her cry. Or that someone on IG is telling her she is being discussed in the hope of getting a response which has led her to that.

I know we aren't bullying anyone but I am concerned that she has been tipped into that directly or indirectly by these threads

MarshaBradyo · 18/05/2018 12:30

I have much more sympathy for the receiver of that comment, absolutely

To some people all content is good content, ie it ends up in extra income so no depths unplumbed

MarshaBradyo · 18/05/2018 12:31

Although I still haven’t seen it

PavlovaPrincess · 18/05/2018 12:32

@FlyingBird well said.

Wildlingofthewest · 18/05/2018 12:41

I don’t think it’s fair to say that this thread is the reason for this lady being upset on her Instagram feed. I have never heard of her, had no idea who she was until 5 minutes ago!

If she had said something or done something inflammatory on her Instagram page then she needs to deal with the fall out from that.

Of course I’m not in anyway condoning bullying or abuse - that’s clearly not on.

I think unfortunately the flip side of being a “public” persona on social media means that you are going to have to deal with negative feedback and as we know the internet is full of trolls/ nasty folk so dealing with that is part and parcel of the culture of social media. There will always been some one who takes it too far and starts being nasty just for the sake of it.

TireSwing · 18/05/2018 12:42

@Wildlingofthewest - I have no idea of it's anything to do with this thread. It just concerns me if it is. Tho I think she'd be a victim of the IG/influencer thing rather than a victim of anyone who had contributed to this thread.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 18/05/2018 12:46

I do find it really odd that the new instgram filter which apparently removed content on MOD's page (rather than MOD deleting it) didn't pick up on the comment about the mother with the disabled child on MOD's page. It doesn't seem to work very well

MediocrePenguin · 18/05/2018 12:49

@CadyHeron getting abuse is just the unfortunate side effect of 'putting yourself out there' it's not nice, I can see if definitely hurts but it's completely unrealistic to not expect it and to continuously complain about it.

If you put your life on the internet you WILL get horrible, personal comments (mumsnet threads are pretty tame in comparison tbh) the only solution is to take yourself offline.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 18/05/2018 12:53

It's also very unrealistic and u fair to expect nobody ever to make any negative comment about you. But for that rule not to apply to you or your followers

There is a lot of projection going on here

sparklefluff · 18/05/2018 12:55

It's obvious she is visually upset about events that are unfolding all over IG currently.

She 100% has a right to feel like that, they are her emotions and can never be invalidated by anyone else.

What anyone, irrespective of whether it's CB, MOD etc etc needs to grasp, is so do the people who listen to their public opinions. They also have the right to feel how they do.

How they choose to express it is the problem. That's where we need to show decorum and respect.

But, I don't understand the naivety of IG's with large followings who cannot seem to grasp that their following means that far more people are going to hear them, than the majority of the people who post comments.

The people on their threads who become clearly attacked by a following of any instagrammer, doesn't have the ability to say they felt bullied, that they cried, that they felt huge anxiety following a public grilling.

What about those people?

allusedup · 18/05/2018 12:57

Sorry, long post alert, have been lurking and hope this isn’t a derail at this stage.

I started using instagram because of an interest in photography so was following documentary and photojournalists as well as people and organisations working in my professional area.

I got sucked into following these instamum accounts; women of my age, class, etc looking lovely, with info on lovely clothes, holidays, beauty, skincare etc, all very aspirational and insecurity-inducing (even thought I never succumbed to actually being 'influenced') when the selling aspect was so sneaky and shady to begin with. It's very easy for them now post ad-disclosure/paid partnerships etc to say if these accounts make you feel insecure it's your own fault/issues.

For balance, I'm glad that the mental health aspect especially is being highlighted, and talked about, kudos to many people for sharing life's realities and hardships so openly. The amateur monetising of it, however, is gross and shameful.

Also, massive fan of Mother Pukka, I think her efforts on flex appeal are amazing, as is her response to all shades of feedback and questioning. She is witty, funny, open, genuine, thoughtful, reflective.

From early on, however, especially in regard to some of those being mentioned, the cliquey-ness, hypocrisy, cognitive dissonance and snarky responses to valid comments btl were pretty crass but then to see them being held up, calling for and presenting themselves as paragons of 'feminism' 'sisterliness' 'selflessness' 'kindness' made me feel very uncomfortable. The charity trips from last year played very badly with me. I work in international development (and am hugely critical of and questioning of many, many aspects of it - hugely aware of how rife it is with all sorts of ethical dilemmas generally). I have worked on projects with some of the NGOs involved, and just wonder how they justified this internally - the use of money (I sincerely hope influencers weren't paid a fee but thinking flights, hotels, per diems, guides, translators, staff time) and what the returns on this turned out to be, plus simplistic, naive and patronising messaging and perpetuation of white saviour stereotypes, not to mention some very uncomfortable photographs lacking context, (not to mention influencers looking very out of their depth and uncomfortable themselves) and lack of ongoing follow up/engagement longer term. NGOs have some questions to answer here. As others have said, the subsequent lux holidays, materialistic fervour in light of these 'efforts' just stinks. If that's your bag, fine (even if I personally disagree), and OWN it, but mixing it up with self-proclaimed 'selfless' acts to justify it all reeks of hypocrisy, defensiveness and vacuousness.

On this bullying/trolling/be kind issue, and to which several of them have asked 'why me?!': you are stoking this behaviour by selective responses, ignoring others, inconsistent use of 'be kind' mantras and general dissonance e.g. coming on MN and presenting a reasonable facade, then returning to IG and responding quickly, defensively and personally and still referring to 'haters', 'bullies', 'trolls' when you are in the position of power (followers, ££, influence). You are sharing intimate details of your life, asking questions of followers, proclaiming you want to engage and provoke discussion, then shutting down difficult conversations and hiding behind motherhood amongst other personal circs to avoid criticism. JFC. I saw there were calls for kindness following recent threads, but not explicitly a call for kindness on both sides, so of course followers interpret this as not directed at them.

The inability on the KK issue to see that the type of criticism they were throwing her way was exactly the thing they shut others down for doing to them. The massive irony of instamum followers now saying in recent posts 'sisterhood isn't blindly supporting women when they're blatantly wrong' in defence of their IG idols when this is precisely what the very astute and unblinkered MN commenters have been practising is just mind boggling.

The whole thing is very interesting and I'm interested in why it riles me so much. I think it's mainly because so much (feminism, charity work, 'kindness', sisterhood) is being co-opted for personal financial gain. It is neoliberalism writ large ('I'm earning money for my family, I don't care if you don't like if it might impact negatively on others or is unethical). The MLM observation is also bang on. The other initial thing that pissed me off was the promotion or endorsement of fast fashion brands and labels whilst simultaneously promoting feminism and empowering women. Grr. Inbetween squares proclaiming to be 'feminist as fuck' one actually said there was space for throw away fashion in her kid's wardrobe and made a 'joke' about clothes from Primark ‘probably being made in a dungeon held together by the tears of small orphans’, but it was ok cos the clothes were cheap and likely to be ruined quickly anyway. More neolib bullshit for cheap mama laughs. If that makes me humourless then I’m happy to be so.

I am absolutely not jealous, I don't aspire to the lifestyle, holidays or events (I travel internationally for work, I meet incredible inspiring professionals working every day in boardrooms, in parliament, in communities, who make a tangible difference to the lives of people living in difficult circumstances in the UK and beyond, as it seems do many of the people on this thread, yet I am still massively critical and questioning about the way my own line of work operates and want to explore the critiques and look for ways to improve practices/attitudes/approaches). Yes, I can unfollow, ignore, block, whatever (and mostly have) but I really dislike the implications for people and communities working professionally and passionately every day on these issues and where it leads discourse and discussion and where money gets directed, and that ultimately all this influencing perpetuates and supports inequalities globally (fast fashion, social, environmental, economic and not to mention emotional and wellbeing impacts of over-consumption, individualism, apolitical ‘be kind’ stances, shutting down critique and debate).

EatMyShoes · 18/05/2018 13:02

Wow @allusedup. That is EVERYTHING in one post.

Jackiebrambles · 18/05/2018 13:03

Great post allusedup! Glad you stopped lurking :)

Wildlingofthewest · 18/05/2018 13:06

@allusedup

Your post sums up my own thoughts on this whole subject.

FleaRiddenScruffBag · 18/05/2018 13:09

I am a bit worried by the silence from MoD. She has called out MN for allowing bullying while not confronting it on her own page. To suggest she is unaware of it would be beyond credulity - you have to moderate your own page. She doesn't want to upset her fans and yet she doesn't engage with her critics. I genuinely feel sorry for her - this is a mess and she has gone into hiding. I just hope someone is giving her some good advice about her next move. Social media is a whole new place and the rules aren't in place to guide us through it. It also illustrates for me the difference between MN and Insta, here disagreement is positively welcomed as a way to engage and possibly change minds whereas insta is seemingly an echo chamber.