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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

SATs - aibu to opt out, withdraw child from testing?

183 replies

MrsOprah · 14/05/2018 18:45

I did my SATs 20 years ago. Think they were a fairly new concept in the 90s(?) They were fine, scored well, no pressure really was bright child and did extended papers too.
Was described as a way to know where to level kids, results were used by secondary school to decided if you'd be in top-mid-low set for maths, sci, eng.
Obv longer term it has no affect on earnings potential, not put on cv or uni application, so minor benefits had as the test taker.

Nowadays, they seem to be a HUGE deal. Masses of pressure, painted as important! All for schools benefit. Not for kids well being. On that basis, WIBU to ask/decline for my child to sit the tests?

OP posts:
taratill · 15/05/2018 20:14

Toomany it probably is a good indicator but there will be exceptions. Some kids develop later, the subject matter of GCSE's may engage more etc.

taratill · 15/05/2018 20:15

So not to benefit the child then? It benefits the school / teachers pay.

That's the point I was making. Why should kids face stress for this reason? There must be other ways to judge performance.

Tessliketrees · 15/05/2018 20:15

@Pengggwn

But it is how it is now.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 20:16

taratill

No. It directly benefits the child that their school is held accountable.

Tessliketrees · 15/05/2018 20:16

@taratill

The theory is that it benefits the kids by ensuring the school is held to a national standard.

Toomanytealights · 15/05/2018 20:17

But schools surely don't put their pupils under stress,ours certainly doesn't. They've covered the work,there is nothing new,they are reassured and it's just another day at school. What is there to be stressed about? None of our teachers or pupils are in the least bit fazed.Those with Sen have all the support and reassurance they need. There is no drama,tears or anything.Confused

Mousefunky · 15/05/2018 20:19

I don’t have a problem with year 6 SATS as I think 10/11 year olds are old enough to handle exams and they always have a fun filled week for them afterwards. I didn’t mind doing mine when I was in school at all.

I have a major problem with year 2 SATS which are entirely pointless.

taratill · 15/05/2018 20:19

Ok well isn't that kind of what OFSTED is supposed to do? I still don't think that the collateral damage to the mental health of under 11s is defensible.

Presumably then my village primary was not accountable as there were no SATS when I was at school. Funnily enough it did a very good job at educating me!

taratill · 15/05/2018 20:22

toomanylights

That's great that your school is supportive however there is a marked increase in the number of primary school mental health referrals since the introduction of the new SATS.

Children are feeling pressure and the tests are unnecessary for the educational development of the children.

Tessliketrees · 15/05/2018 20:22

@Toomanytealights

In my experience it was the other kids who put the pressure on.

There were all sorts of stupid rumours about what happened if you "failed" your SATs.

Feenie · 15/05/2018 20:23

My son is doing the Year 2 SATs at the moment, and what has really annoyed me is that if you are bad at spelling you are likely to fail all the papers regardless. We were told they will mark maths related words wrong in the maths paper if spelt incorrectly (although I couldn't find a list anywhere stating what these words are) and they may or may not do the same in the reading comprehension. They said probably if the word is in the text it will be marked wrong but how strictly that is enforced varies. I realise spelling is important but so long as the answer is legible and understandable why cant the maths paper actually test maths?

None of that is accurate. Children are not penalised in Y2 (or Y6) for misspelling a Maths answer in a test. In any case, the judgements for Y2 come from teacher assessment.

The SPAG paper in Y2 with a spelling test is optional. Spelling does have to be accurate to attain 'expected ' in the writing teacher assessment.

Toomanytealights · 15/05/2018 20:24

I get that for teachers it can be stressful in some circumstances but most teachers I know do everything in their power not to project that onto their pupils. It's in their interest.Non stressed kids perform better.

I think 2/3 of year 6 can be dry although the final 1/3 makes up for it but actually they get a good grounding for secondary. These kids are coming to the end of primary and are no longer babies. I don't think the hysteria re Sats is always warranted. That said I do think its unfair the way it isn't acknowledged that schools with more proactive parents have an easier ride but not sure how you can account for that.

BoomBoomsCousin · 15/05/2018 20:32

YANBU to be concerned. After my kids' Y2 SATs took up a term and half for test prep and my kids came home anxious about (in a school that claimed not to focus on SATS but just to engage in whole curriculum teaching and emphasized that they framed the tests to students as diagnostic) I started looking at what I could do about Y6 SATs.

As others here have pointed out, I came to the conclusion that opting out meant homeschooling for Y6, there would be no point in just not doing the tests themselves (other than as a civil disobedience type of act to try and pressure for a change in policy). I began preparing for homeschooling, but in the end decided, since we could afford it, going private would be more beneficial for them. It's a hard situation to be in. There may be a school you could move to that takes a more ethical approach to them, but I found that all the (state) schools near us talked about such things well, but in practice, were just test focused for most of Y6.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 20:33

taratill

Schools used to be much less accountable. I'm not supporting the current system in its entirety here - it has problems - but it isn't the case that SATS are to benefit schools or justify teachers' pay. That's rubbish.

Tessliketrees · 15/05/2018 20:34

My problem with the SATs has always been more about how the education system/teachers have been treated rather than how they directly effect children as tests.

I agree with Toomanytealights that there seems to be hysteria about them as far as the kids go... but then again the most I experienced as a parent was some mild anxiety from one. The other loves standardized testing.

Tessliketrees · 15/05/2018 20:38

I don't understand why people think it's pointless just to take them out of the test.

I just told mine they were optional. I suppose it would depend on the child.

Meckity1 · 15/05/2018 20:52

My primary education was appalling. I left primary school knowing roughly what my son covered by yr 2 and most of that had been taught me by my parents. Some sort of testing may have given me a chance to enter secondary education knowing what 'division' was. I am not exaggerating. I wish I was. I've had to google to help ds with homework.

However ds is bright, okay it's a brag but it's relevant, he's doing seriously well according to his teacher. He is coming home in bits about the SATS. As far as I can tell, his classmates are also in bits. There is a real atmosphere and ds comes home saying he feels like he ought to be stressed.

I'm furious. There has to be a way that keeps schools honest without doing genuine damage to the kids' mental health.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 20:59

There has to be a way that keeps schools honest without doing genuine damage to the kids' mental health.

Of course there is. You rate schools on how well they adhere to the normal curriculum during a SATS year. Any evidence of hot-housing (like cancelling P.E. all year, sending home weekly revision papers, having assemblies or Easter extra lessons) you bat them down a grade. That would soon sort it.

Tessliketrees · 15/05/2018 21:06

To take the pressure off kids the simple answer would surely be to not release individual marks to either parents or high school.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 21:08

Tessliketrees

Perhaps, but then it would be hard to justify Ofsted gradings, wouldn't it? I think transparency is a must or confidence is lost. There really shouldn't be a problem with sitting some tests in Y6. It's the year of teaching to the test and stressing about it that is the issue.

cantkeepawayforever · 15/05/2018 21:13

The simple answer would be for results to be kept private within schools, and not used publicly to create league tables, and for Ofsted grading (reduced to just a pass / fail - ie 'good enough' or 'not good enough') to take a child's whole education, across the curriculum and across all years, into account.

Essentially, if you have selected your school for its league table position or its Ofsted grade, you are part of the problem, and complaining about your child's SATs now is highly hypocritical. Schools are competing for 'easy' children - it helps their Ofsted grade and their local perception - so there is a vicious circle between parents choosing schools on Ofsted grade and league table position, Ofsted being linked both to intake and to SATs rsults, schools knowing that the only way to attract 'the right families;' is to have a high ofsted grade and be high up the league tables.... and so on.

Rockandrollwithit · 15/05/2018 21:14

Someone mentioned a 'national standard'. I really dislike the idea of judging schools against that as for some it will be ridiculously easy to meet and others almost impossible. Irrespective of the teaching standard.

In around 2009, so before the new curriculum/SATs, I was working in a school in a deprived area. It was highly praised by OFSTED as despite the children entering well below age related expectations, often by a year or more, they achieved expectations by Year 6. This was seen to represent good progress from their starting points.

The same school has since come under a lot of pressure as it's still just about achieving the national expectation. Knowing it as I do, I know that the teaching must be at least good to achieve that.

Yet schools in different areas would struggle to not achieve this standard.

It skews the whole system and puts teachers off teaching in 'tougher' areas, where schools already have trouble recruiting as it is.

Tessliketrees · 15/05/2018 21:14

Perhaps, but then it would be hard to justify Ofsted gradings, wouldn't it?

Not at all. I am not suggesting they don't release the scores, just not on an individual level.

If I want to know what hospital to use and I looked at success rate for treatment I wouldn't need to know the names of the people treated.

There is no issue with transparency if the reasons for the testing are the ones you have stated.

It's the year of teaching to the test and stressing about it that is the issue

And that would still be an issue for the teacher which isn't insignificant. That's why I said this would only work to solve the issue for the kids.

Rockandrollwithit · 15/05/2018 21:17

@Tess

I would also like to see OFSTED focusing more on non SATs year groups. Particularly Year 3/4.

Tessliketrees · 15/05/2018 21:17

Someone mentioned a 'national standard'. I really dislike the idea of judging schools against that as for some it will be ridiculously easy to meet and others almost impossible

That was me and I am not unsympathetic with your position but the argument you're putting forward is exactly what was used as justification for this kind of testing.

Of course it's the structural issues that need addressing first. The rest is just a waste of time without it.