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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

SATs - aibu to opt out, withdraw child from testing?

183 replies

MrsOprah · 14/05/2018 18:45

I did my SATs 20 years ago. Think they were a fairly new concept in the 90s(?) They were fine, scored well, no pressure really was bright child and did extended papers too.
Was described as a way to know where to level kids, results were used by secondary school to decided if you'd be in top-mid-low set for maths, sci, eng.
Obv longer term it has no affect on earnings potential, not put on cv or uni application, so minor benefits had as the test taker.

Nowadays, they seem to be a HUGE deal. Masses of pressure, painted as important! All for schools benefit. Not for kids well being. On that basis, WIBU to ask/decline for my child to sit the tests?

OP posts:
Hillarious · 15/05/2018 09:59

I've had three children do Year 6 SATs, and they've all enjoyed that period of time in school. How stressed, or not, the children are about the tests is all down to the school's approach. However, whenever children have to take tests there will be an element of anxiety.

SATs should be a good place to start to learn how to deal with this anxiety and pressure around doing the tests and understand that avoiding the source of their stress isn't always the best or most sensible option, even if it's telling the children not to let the heightened stress levels in the staff room affect them.

I work with students in HE. It doesn't get any easier (for anyone)!

user1867895 · 15/05/2018 10:07

Why do many parents assume year 6 SATS are not important?

They are used to group your child into a form group of similar academic achievement.

Quite simply, life is full of goals and hoops to jump through, my daughter has worked her bottom off in the last month for the SATS and she is so proud of herself.

I will be proud of her, regardless of any marks she attains because she has taken responsibility of her own learning and at such a young age, hopefully a sign of things to come.

Withdrawing a child seems very over the top. Are you going to withdraw them from GCSE'S, A-levels, their degree course because its too much stress?

mumtoboys · 15/05/2018 10:29

My son is doing Sats this week. He has been looking forward to it as he likes tests. His class have done loads of practices since Easter to try to stop them being nervous. They all go in at 8.30 this week to have breakfast together before the sats. After the tests they spend the rest of the day doing art and playing. After the Sats have finished on Thursday, his teacher bakes them a cake and they go to the park to play rounders. They then spend the rest of the school year doing fun stuff like a big play with everyone in the class. On the whole, it has been a positive experience for him.

I am taking him out for a curry on Thursday eve.

Tests are part of life IMO and it makes them less scary if they can get used to them as long as the teachers keep encouraging them rather than stressing them out.

His secondary school also uses Sats to help assess sets for maths so it would be quite risky not to sit them.

Snowysky20009 · 15/05/2018 10:30

*I don't agree that they don't measure the quality of teaching and learning at all. I would expect to see a correlation between Value Added and high quality teaching, even accounting for how much coaching goes on.

I do agree that the practices we see - restricted curricula, excessive papers sent home, extra lessons - are harmful and skew rather than enhance the picture offered.

In my opinion, schools should be heavily penalised by Ofsted for doing anything other than their usual teaching of Y6 students.*

^ this.

I'm in wales so luckily no SATS, so I've never taught for them nor have my children sat them.
But how is spending the whole of year 6 cramming for them a clear
reflection of the teaching?
I've never spoken Spanish before, but I'm sure if I spent several hours a day for an academic year practising it, I may well be on my way to completing a GCSE in it.
Shouldn't the kids just be told, tomorrow you have a little test to do, try your hardest but don't worry about it. I'm reading that people are getting tutors to help their children through them. Is that an indication to how well the school teaches?
It reminds me of a friend who has
Children at a 'good' independent school- but has tutors 5 days a week for her dc. My opinion is if the school is that good why are you using tutors? But I digress sorry, just trying to give an example.
I do feel so sorry for both the children and parents going through this, my ds has started his A-Level exams this week, so he's been through the whole past papers, revision, techniques etc, the last several months, but he's 18! I can't imagine the stress it puts on 10/11 year olds.

hmcAsWas · 15/05/2018 11:50

"Why do many parents assume year 6 SATS are not important?" Because they are not

"They are used to group your child into a form group of similar academic achievement. " Not at either of my now teenagers secondary schools (one an indie and one a grammar school) - and no ability sets are fixed in Y7

hmcAsWas · 15/05/2018 11:50

As in fixed and immovable

Feenie · 15/05/2018 12:37

However, the school will be obliged to set GCSE targets for each child in each subject directly from their SAT results.

History, PE, Computing, Music - all from what they achieve in an hour when they're 11.

So secondaries can do their own tests and set/not set as much as they like - they still have to meet those targets for those children.

hmcAsWas · 15/05/2018 13:20

Again, not fixed targets - unless my dc have just gone to exceptionally good schools? Essentially decisions (about such things as combined or triple science, core or extended maths) were made for dd at the end of Y9

RexManning · 15/05/2018 13:36

Your energies would be better spent writing to your MP and to Damian Hinds, expressing your concerns about the whole regime.

I hope that every MNer who bitches loudly about SATs has already done the same.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 13:48

Targets set by the school for the child are movable. Targets set by the government for the child (and against which the school will be judged) aren't. In most cases, the school uses the government targets, because those are the ones they have to work to.

sothisisspring · 15/05/2018 14:23

My son is doing the Year 2 SATs at the moment, and what has really annoyed me is that if you are bad at spelling you are likely to fail all the papers regardless. We were told they will mark maths related words wrong in the maths paper if spelt incorrectly (although I couldn't find a list anywhere stating what these words are) and they may or may not do the same in the reading comprehension. They said probably if the word is in the text it will be marked wrong but how strictly that is enforced varies. I realise spelling is important but so long as the answer is legible and understandable why cant the maths paper actually test maths?

taratill · 15/05/2018 14:58

Yes I've made my feelings clear to my MP.

I'm still unclear on what the SPAG test actually proves about a child's innate intelligence and creativity?

If a bright year 6 does well in the SATS then it proves that they are able to remember the grammatical rules and spellings to pass a test! Fantastic for them but it does not follow that they will have the most enquiring minds or find the information required in the test in any way relevant for their future.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 15:11

I'm still unclear on what the SPAG test actually proves about a child's innate intelligence and creativity?

That's like asking what a German test proves about a person's ability to bake a cake. Nothing.

The spelling test tests whether the child can spell.

taratill · 15/05/2018 15:13

Exactly my point Pengggwn, which is why I don't really understand why such significance is placed on them.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 15:15

taratill

Well, personally, I have no interest in testing innate intelligence or creativity whatsoever. Those things are innate. I am interested in whether the education system is working for children, and since nobody is innately able to spell, it seems a reasonable test of one thing we fund our education system to do.

Waffles80 · 15/05/2018 15:15

Look up @debrakidd on Twitter and you’ll find a very thorough explanation of why you can definitely withdraw your child, and pointers on how to do so.

taratill · 15/05/2018 15:31

Pengggwn really a teacher with no interest in innate intelligence or creativity? That baffles me. There are several leading figures who are bemoaning the fact that the current education system is unfit for purpose and I am coming to the conclusion they are right.

Of course children need to learn how to read, write and spell in order to access the curriculum but this should not be at the expense of creativity, which is it , because kids spend years cramming for these tests.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 15:37

taratill

Why would I be interested in innate ability, other than as a means to facilitate further learning? What an odd notion.

Thehop · 15/05/2018 15:39

You CAN withdraw your child from SaTs. I did! Child still has to go to school otherwise they sit them when they go back though. There’s a letter online if you want a template.

dayinlifeof · 15/05/2018 15:39

Would you want to send your child to a school based purely on an Ofsted rating? I wouldn't.

Absolutely not. I wouldn't base it on the SATs results either, I'd go and look round and get a feel for the place and then decide based on the environment, the teachers and how my child responded to it.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 15:41

dayinlifeof

I'm interested in that too, but I am definitely interested in the quality of teaching.

CardinalCat · 15/05/2018 15:46

They should be banned. The infinitely superior education system in Scotland doesn't use them (or anything like them).

dayinlifeof · 15/05/2018 15:53

I'm interested in that too, but I am definitely interested in the quality of teaching.

Me too but I think I can get a feel for that by asking questions and watching - if I visit a school and the teachers just ignore adults/prospective pupils who walk into the room then I am going to doubt their teaching quality. If they are enthusiastic and talk to my DCs directly then I'm more likely to think they will be better teachers.

Pengggwn · 15/05/2018 15:55

dayinlifeof

As a teacher who has mentored, coached and managed other teachers, I can tell you it takes a hell of a lot more than enthusiasm.

RedSkyAtNight · 15/05/2018 16:06

Would you want to send your child to a school based purely on an Ofsted rating? I wouldn't. Huge numbers of parents do base their school preferences on Ofsted and SATS results though. I know plenty of parents who move house purely because the local school is Ofsted Outstanding, and apply to schools based on Ofsted and SATS results - without so much as having stepped into said schools.