To ask for your comebacks to a conspiracy theorist?

[BeigeisthenewOrange]

I know someone who believes in lots of conspiracy theories. I see this person almost every day, and it's not easy to just ignore them. I'm crap at arguing/debating, so I tend to get panicky when they tell me all their beliefs and don't have any counter arguments. Or I try to but they come back with more 'proof'.

I don't believe everything is as it seems in the world, for example I think the government and the media are colluding possibly to gradually make the NHS look worse and worse so that we end up scrapping it and having only private healthcare. Plus things like the way the disabled are treated in this country. So am not totally 'the other way'. I stress though that these are only 'possibles' in my mind and I don't blindly believe that!

I'd like to be able to hold my own in our conversations, if anyone has any ideas I'd be grateful.

Some of her current beliefs:

• There are only chem trails in the sky, put there by the government to poison us.
• All vaccinations cause autism.
• Autism never used to exist, the government want children to have it so they are easily controlled.
• ISIS don't exist and every single terrorist attack is performed by actors.
• Any medication we take is because the 'Big Pharma' want us all hooked on everything, the GPs get back handers and want us on as much meds as possible. Every single medication is making us more ill which they want.
• The entire Royal Family are corrupt in the most awful ways. I won't go into details.
• Everything David Icke says is gospel.

These are just a few. If you're wondering why I care or can't just walk away it's because I do like this woman and we do have a real laugh a lot of the time, sometimes though I get frustrated by her extreme beliefs, especially when she brings my health into it and says my GP wants to poison me. I'd like to be able to discredit some of this in a clever way.

If this is a work colleague as you mentioned before, you need to shut this down quickly. Just say "Diane, you know we don't agree on this. Some of the things you are saying could be taken as offensive. Please can we focus on work. It is becoming distracting".

Next time she comments on your medication say "Diane, please stop talking about my health and treatment at work. It is not your concern." That is a major violation and super unprofessional.

You should log this every time and if she continues, I would go to HR to have a talk about appropriate workplace conversations. You cannot be the only person she does this to.

It is beyond unprofessional.

Believing in conspiracy theories requires the rejection of conventional knowledge, rationality and thought processes.

If a normal-thinking person presented a theory, and someone else questioned it, they would likely turn to sources of evidence to back things up. Ideally, those would be, or would stem from, peer reviewed sources. For normal thinking people, part of the process of arguing a point is taking the time to understand the counter arguments and respond to these, showing why they don't apply, or are untrue. For normal thinking people, opposing views are to be welcomed and respected, if not necessarily agreed with. Integral to the process is the notion that, on each individual issue, one is free to make up or change one's mind.

For conspiracy theorists, the whole process above is dismissed as 'mainstream'. YouTube videos replace peer reviewed sources as evidence for points made. Opposing views are held by sheeple, who are constrained by their blind faith in the government. The reason there are so many people on this thread who have friends with identical views is that (in an ironic twist on how very original conspiracy theorists believe themselves to be) they are actually of a remarkably similar mind to each other. Opposing views are not engaged with beyond blind dismissal, which results in all of them thinking the same thing about the same things. Contrary to what they would say about themselves, they are actually in no way enlightened or able to see any truth where it may exist, because they are tied to the beliefs of the club that they belong to.

Your poor friend has obviously struggled with the diagnosis of autism in her son and has latched on to these beliefs as a way of explaining his condition. Sadly belief in conspiracy theories is a lost cause, unlike for autism there is no help available.

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree but a bit of respect for your friends opinions will go a long way.

An opinion has to have some foundation in fact, and/or not to be directly contradicted by the evidence before it is entitled to respect.

Autism never used to exist, the government want children to have it so they are easily controlled.

I can't get past this bit. They've clearly never met a child with autism. Easily controlled? It took me 2 hours to just get my autistic DD to put her shoes on. And that's on a good day.

Just laugh in her face then apologise and say she thought she was joking.

Then keep obviously trying to keep the smile off your face while nodding patronisingly.

I have been seconds away from being punched in the face with this tactic but it works a treat as a way to tell them you think they are a ridiculous nob without explicitly saying so. Also in my experience it winds them up no end.

I

I should say I save the above for those cases were the "theory" is offensive.

I have a cousin who goes on and on about Chem trails and "big Pharma". The first time he brought it up in conversation with me i said "ooh i love conspiracy theories, they're all so fantastically nutty, aren't they?". He hasn't really bothered me with them since.

Kursk in what possible way is it plausible that "Big Pharma" a) wants us all to be ill, b) has succeeded in keeping every GP from speaking up about this and c) would get away with it in a world where most new molecules are discovered in university labs and new drugs are subject to independently run, rigorously controlled and enormously expensive trials, peer reviews of data etc? Seriously, this shit is utterly baffling to me!

How about doing your own research from both sides of the argument. Then you'll have the answers. Trying to get answers from others on the likes of MN isn't really going to help because they won't be from you. Yes, it'll take some of your time doing this research but there isn't really a quick fix if you want to be genuine.

Oh I have a relative like this... why is it always the same spout of shite they believe?? (i.e. Chem trails, big pharma, vaccinations, autism and flat earth)
I read a great response on a similar thread which was "Peer read review or it ain't coming in"

Ha interesting point from pp about the CTs all feeling they're highly original when they all have the same unproven views. I was married to one and found the psychology that's behind it, as recommended by pp, to be very interesting. The needing to control because uncertainty is so difficult for them rings true.

Above all it's so fucking tedious, isn't it. I ended up just saying 'so what if that is true, what are we going to do about it apart from die of boredom?'

Yes, I agree with Vitalogy. Maybe do some research of both sides yourself?

Op does you’re friend know that autistic children were known as ‘dud children’ (awful term) and were put into institutions for their entire lives?
Or that Issac Newton most likely had a form of autism?

Maybe do some research of both sides yourself?

Reading nutty theories by non-medical people is not ‘doing research’. Anecdotal does not equal data.

Please tell me where you are doing your research, if it’s not in a lab and through scientific journals (NOT discredited ones ) and forensic accounting then it’s not research.

I regularly find that, when challenged, conspiracy theorists invariably retreat into the "I'm entitled to my opinion" mantra, frequently confused and/or coupled with claims about the right to free speech. There seems to be quite a widespread failure to understand that opinions don't equate to facts; and that, if you are spouting something that is factually obviously bullshit then no, you aren't entitled to claim it's your opinion and you can't claim that your freedom of speech is being contravened because someone points out the facts.

in what possible way is it plausible that "Big Pharma" a) wants us all to be ill,

Big pharma makes money through the sale of medication. Heathy people are bad for business.

I found arguing with a anti vaxer was like trying to punch smoke

Kursk, you've ignored the rest of LRH's question about Big Pharma, i.e.
b) has succeeded in keeping every GP from speaking up about this and c) would get away with it in a world where most new molecules are discovered in university labs and new drugs are subject to independently run, rigorously controlled and enormously expensive trials, peer reviews of data etc?

Even if a conspiracy theorist thinks there is a motivation for keeping us all sick, they need to consider the practicality of it.

Just say 'oh, really that's nice' and talk to someone else.

Ok apologies

B/C, I don’t think it’s being hidden

Aww I was hoping she would have weird conspiracies like Paul McCartney being dead and the earth being flat, some that aren't so serious..

'Of course, that's what they want you to believe'.

"Oh my dear, how ridiculous!" Brittle laugh, a look.
My bil and one of his DC think the moon landings were faked. My ds, just looked and said "naw mate, that's fucking mad"

Obviously some of the conspiracy theories seem very far fetched. Personally I don't go for the lizard stuff or medical scares. However, it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear of some people at the highest levels involved in deceit, greed, lies, cover-ups, selfishness, corruption or abuses of power. There isn't always smoke without fire.

I would just be vague and move the topic on to something else.

work with her, it's a bit hard to avoid her as we HAVE to communicate. It's just that it always ends up being about one of these subjects somehow.

I would communicate about work stuff but would cut her dead when she started with the BS. I would make it clear you have differing options and are not interested in debating her (lunatic) beliefs.