Adopting- they want me to give up work AIBU?

[toobloodymuch]

Name changed for this.

I have a friend who due to past addiction social services are involved with. She asked me if I'd be guardian if needed. Anyway I agreed to go through an adoption assessment in case it is needed as a back up plan in case she relapses.

I work full time, have kids of my own and have a well paid job that allows me to own a nice house etc. I have strong family ties and everyone has agreed to support me. All references are fine and I have a nursery place available to have baby in case I need it. Social services would not be assisting me financially in any way as it is an adoption.

Had 5 visits from the social worker over past month and they are writing the report. Today I was informed that I was unlikely to be assessed as suitable as they want the adoptive parents of babies to not work until they go to school at age 5!!

AIBU to think this is very unreasonable. I worked when all my own kids were small, they are all fine. If I can't work then I can't afford to adopt. Their argument is that the baby will need to settle which I understand hence prepared to take adoption leave for 6 months. How on earth do they think anyone can do this?

Problem is there is no hard and fast rule. Social workers can and do make up what they want as they go along.

Social Services will push you towards taking as much time as possible but insisting on more than a year is not standard and is unenforceable. From memory our day in court was within 6 months of our child moving in and from that point the child is legally yours so social services become no more relevant than they would for birth children.

If the child you're adopting is 6 months old then there shouldn't be any long term effects psychologically from being adopted, attachment should form easily. It's after 6 months that you get an impact. Professor Sir Michael Rutter's work on the Romanian orphans on this is very instructive.

The other side to the coin to this not knowing the effects of drink and drugs during pregnancy some of which may not become apparent for some years. I think you're unlucky if drugs taken early in pregnancy have a long term effect, binge drinking during pregnancy is actually more likely to cause long term damage. It sounds like you're on top of it but make sure that you have a support plan so that you can access funds from social services if something becomes apparent later in life.

Best of luck with it all. Our circumstances were different to yours in that we didn't have birth children but from our experience it is something amazing for both you and the child, so much so that were going through the process to adopt number 2.

Namechanged as a few people know my story.

I approached both council and private agencies and was told by both I’d have to give up work for 5 years.

Why?

Oh, because I am a qualified Nursery Nurse (Ofsted registered, of course) with 20 years of childcare experience...apparently I would be too dedicated to my ‘charges’ that it was assumed any child I adopted would be neglected and take second place.

I have since had a child by donor embryo, despite adoption being my preference. So, so sad, the prejudices of today.

OLIVE I can assure you that I have more than enough understanding of the needs of a potentially difficult child form drug addiction in the mother. I am not going into this blind and am obviously willing to make any adjustments that I need to do. If you adopt it becomes your own child. Therefore I would do whatever it takes.

I just fail to see why they arbitrarily assume I need to stop working. I'm a lone parent and effectively this would cripple me financially as well as meaning I couldn't give the child the other things that would assist it to grow up as a well rounded person. If I need to give up I will. If I don't then I won't.

I feel really frustrated. I can and would give this child everything possible to feel safe emotionally and materially. They just seem hooked up on this random thing.

As it is it looks unlikely that I will be required to adopt as it's all going well so far and this is as a back up plan in case it goes wrong. Fingers crossed that it stays that way.

Fingers crossed op. FWIW, I agree with you - sounds madness insisting you go on benefits at this stage given the baby's age.

I've heard of having to take one year off work for adoption for pre school age DC.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is why a member of staff has gone long term sick. I reckon they've been told to take time off work and as it's a guardian type arrangement, they wouldn't qualify for adoption leave.

I need to do some digging. That's on my to do list for next week.

When adopting we were asked if we would consider giving up our dog and jobs if the situation with our child required us to. We said yes, we would consider it according to the child's needs. Friends of ours going through the adoption process were asked the same and gave the same reply. We both adopted successfully and have managed to keep our pets and jobs since with no questions asked, no involvement from social workers and no major problems. Both of our children do have additional needs but we manage it like any other family, with family support and occasional time off work if needed. Social Workers need to know the child's needs take priority and that is why they assess this. If you are unwilling to consider it then you'll fall at the first hurdle. Some of the assessment and expectations of the adoption process seem unrealistic but are really a way of checking how flexible you are and if you're willing to make changes in your life to accommodate a child with additional support needs.

My understanding is that they have several families lined up for each child and it then goes to a selection hearing.

You need to be honest about your intentions, which I don't see and issue with - but be clear 'Yes I would consider giving up work if that was in the child's best interests' is better than saying 'how ridiculous! Ofcoarse I can't give up my job'

It would be the same for any new mother - if your child needs you, you stay home.

"I feel really frustrated. I can and would give this child everything possible to feel safe emotionally and materially. They just seem hooked up on this random thing. "

And that might be that you can't fit working in, until the child is five. So, if you would do everything, then there isn't an issue.

They aren't hooked on a random thing. They are working on there being attachment issues and other physiological disorders. It may also come out that there are physical disabilities.

We now have the babies removed from Addicted Mothers, who are now Adults. There are greater numbers of that group, than the general population, who have Personality Disorders etc. research has shown that those that are given to a full time consistent Care Givers, have better outcomes.

We are learning all the time what works and what we could do better. When I worked in Services, it was generally twelve months, to be then reviewed.

Speaking to you about the possibility that you may have to be unemployed for four plus years, just makes the Adoption less likely to fail. Many adoptions do fail, especially as issues emerge.

There is nothing that you can give the child, materially, that will benefit them, if the emotional side is not handled as it needs to be. You say that you know how to access support, there are some issues that can't be fully supported, you can only get support for you, whilst you are dealing with them.

I know you want to do this, but I would really think about the effect on your Children. What also worries me is your Friend turning up at yours once the child has been removed and the fallout from that.

I don't understand this. I almost had to take custody of a relatives children as she was going to prison. Social services were not interested. They said if it is an arrangement between the parent and the new family it is of no interest to them.

Just do an informal arrangement of kinship care - after settled you can get residency order and even adopt - your arrangements will be in place and if the child is happy and settled unless the birth parent objects the court will almost certainly ok it.

Vast majority of children in this situation are in these informal arrangements

Our experience of adoption was not this at all. We both work in average jobs full time and were always going back to work. I took 12 months adoption leave but it was never a deal breaker if i took less. As someone else mentioned above, once the adoption order is done they have no say in what you do with what would legally be your child.
You can ask to change social workers if you dont think yours is for you. We adopted a 3 month old baby.
It is an amazing but tough process!

Tell them what they want to hear then once you get the adoption order you can do what you want. The social worker clearly doesn’t live in the real works or have kids. They expect you to put yourself in a financially precarious position? How’s that going to help any of the kids? Is it better for the kid to remain in care? Bonkers.

I have met two adoptive children with drugs and drink related disabilities, both apparently never showed signs till 18 months. One still with his original adoptive family and the other now in foster care (although they are in process) after two failed adoptive placements. Their behaviour and needs are very similar to my DS with severe LD and Autism. Dependent on presentation and behaviour arranging childcare can be near enough impossible and my DS from the age of 3 was in 2:1 ratio unless in a secure unit. I can understand if there is a belief held by SS that there will be additional needs that a family not reliant on an income so can offer a SAHP will be preferable if the needs are great. Unfortunately placements do fall through because of additional needs.

Sounds like my friends social worker she was at college her special needs child was in school full time but they insisted she quit college in case her child needed her in the day

From my experience that is not national expectation.

I would ignore what they say, insist you will take the agreed leave and then return to work and continue with the assessment. Sometimes they state this rubbish just because it is their personal preference

Once the Adoption order is signed there is nothing they can do either way OP. Just say you'll do whatever, and when it comes to it do whatever you think is right.

You're right. It's a bullshit hoop. But it still needs to be jumped through.

It does sound extreme. However you do need to plan for the what ifs. What if there is an issue with the child that requires you to give up work? Attachment disorder can have lifelong issues.

Is it better for the kid to remain in care? Bonkers.

Given that the child is a baby it is very unlikely that they will remain in care. Some children will need a full time carer available and the adoption agency are making the OP aware of this and that they may give preference to someone who has this set up from the start.

You sound a bit naive. An adopted child who has been through trauma is nothing like bringing up a birth child. To be lose a birth parent, then a foster parent and to be given an adoptive parent but to then be taken away from her and plonked into a busy nursery five days a week just might not be in the child's best interests. The need for an adopted child to socialise in a nursery might well be less than their need to develop a strong attachment to one person. Whether you work or not isn't "some random thing" as you describe it - it is a very fundamental issue.

It may be that the panel would prefer not to give a young baby to a full-time working single parent, but you may well be considered the ideal adoptive parent for a school-age child.

I'm an adopter with 2 DDs (9 and 7). We made the decision that I would be a SAHM. With DD1, I couldn't have gone back to work as she had a lot of needs. She had hearing and sight problems, she wears glasses and hearing aids. That meant lots of hospital appointments. Then there were problems with toilet training, and attachment issues. She did go into nursery 18 months later and I went to work for a while (part-time).

Then we adopted DD2, DD1's birth sister. She didn't have the difficulties that DD1 had, but she was sooo clingy. She would scream if I ever left her with someone else for a few minutes. What solved it, interestingly enough, was putting her in nursery for 2 mornings a week. I had to wait until the Adoption Order had gone through, but I had to do it, because apart from anything else I was shattered; DD2 wouldn't allow anyone else to change her nappy or dress her (apart from DH but of course he was at work). Things improved so much then.

So all children have different needs. Sometimes staying at home all the time with them isn't the best way. But in any case, once the Adoption Order has gone through it really is entirely up to you.

But you need to be flexible and accept that you won't be able to go back to work for at least a year to 18 months (at least not full time). But if there are special needs, like my DD1 has, going back to full-time work may not be possible at all.

There are families approved and waiting right now to adopt this child, who could offer the consistency of care that the OP cannot , because of her work plans.

The child could also be placed in a family with no other children, where they would get more adult attention.

Yes , biological family is the first choice when a birth mother cannot care safely for her child. But the OP isn’t family, just a friend.

And it will be very complex for the Op to go on supporting her friend while parenting the friends child. Especially if / when the friend gets clean / sober in a few months / years and wants her biological child back .

The whole situation is quite complicated and the adoption agency may feel that another placement is in the child’s best interest. The prospective adopters work situation is only one of the issues here.

I’m also adopting and have agreed to take one year off then go back part time for a period afterwards. From training days etc I have come to believe that many of the social workers are so much around dysfunctional families that they forget how functional families operate/need to operate.

I also have birth DC and get the feeling that many of them don’t have kids so they get their views on raising kids from textbooks. It’s all very idealistic but there are practicalities involved in raising children that some of them don’t seem to consider and as a result there are probably many capable families being put off adoption.

There was even one on a training day being very vocally anti having any ambition for your kids to do okay in education and get a decent job (even if they’re NT and completely fine as many adopted kids eventually are after settling in - I know a few adopted kids). She started banging on about education today and targets, parents expecting too much of children and homework etc. It all got a bit preachy and I felt I’d accidentally turned up at an SWP/Momentum meeting!

@unfinishedkitchen

I know hundreds of adopted kids. Many of them are indeed NT but have significant social emotional and behavioural problems that make it hard for them to succeed in school and the workplace .

I suggest that you drop your prejudices unfinishedkitchen and listen to the SWs on your Prep course. They are giving your important and valuable information which you would do well to take on board.

At the end of the day, you can't give up your job. The family depend on you. You could lose everything you've worked so hard for.

You're so right, @Unfinishedkitchen some of them really don't know anything about looking after kids. DD1's first social worker genuinely thought that we should be able to stop any accident at all from happening, and so got extremely suspicious about any bruise. This was a 1 year old learning to walk for goodness sake.

Also the idea they have that you should never do time out, when they behave badly you should sit with them and comfort them. But when DD1 hurts DD2, I have to remove her from the situation whilst I comfort DD2 and make sure she's okay. Then I go to DD1, by which time the 'red mist' has subsided.

And yes, I agree, I think it's sad that social workers have such pessimistic views of adopted children's life chances. DD1 is behind but she can learn, her main problem is with social interaction. DD2 is on target, and is very popular. They're both very good at sport, especially gymnastics.