To ask what ‘leaning in’ means to you and how you feel about it?

[TheTimeToChange]

I’d be interested to find out what you think about ‘leaning in’, as described as Sheryl Sandberg.

I think it’s a good idea, if I’ve understood it correctly. (I think it suggests the idea of someone being proactive and assertive at work in order to get further in their career).

What do you all think?

And how can people ‘lean in’ in practice? I think this is the bit I’m struggling with!

Yes agree with maybedoctor. Having the opportunity to do well-paid, interesting, career-advancing part-time work is so great and feels like a unicorn job.

Hate the term. Hate the fact that a woman who is a multi millionaire is accepted as a mentor for young career women - would some guy listen to the founder of Facebook telling him how to achieve work life balance?

She has child care full time, she is at the upper upper end of the scale in terms of career earnings - it would be like taking grooming advice from Gwyneth Paltrow and expecting to do it on minimum wage. Of course no one took her to task over this - she is a media darling.

To me, I hear ‘lean in’ and I hear ‘approach work like a man - with all the hidden and unacknowledged advantages that men have AND be prepared to make all the sacrifices that men make’ .

I know that’s a generalisation, and maybe women are their own worst enemies for accepting the majority of the load that’s generated by having children, organising a household / family, caring for older relative ces etc etc. As a pp says the author has outsourced all her responsibilities for these things. That’s fine, and this has allowed her to climb the career ladder. But her advice doesn’t do anything to address the inherent sexism of the working world and it totally devalues everything that is achieved by ‘leaning back’.

You said what I meant to so much better Bogstandardbelle

@mueslibox have you a link to the hbr article?

Yes I will search it out, tried to google it there but couldn’t see it.

Ann Marie Slaughter ‘Why Women Still Can’t Have It All’ from the Atlantic is pretty good. Similar pub time to Lean In, but says until society restructured and parenting equal between sexes, it’s just tougher for women. She was a princeton professor and a Hillary aide when she wrote it.

It's a great book if you can afford a nanny and a housekeeper. It's a bit "you can have it all". We can't. We can have it all but not at the same time. If you want to prioritize career then lean in.

I don't have a nanny or a housekeeper (I wish!) and I still found it useful. I didn't read it as 'you have to lean in constantly, all the time' more that there are points of opportunity where often women doubt themselves and it's fine to be nervous and lean in if you want to. Taking up a great part-time opportunity which really uses your skills after a career break would be 'leaning in'. I didn't read it as about constant work and constant pushing, I would hate to live like that, but I equally don't enjoy not getting promoted and/or having lower salary and/or a crappy pension compared with my male colleagues and I'm prepared now to strategically lean in to get those things in place. I have had to lean in harder and more times than those males, though and that's where structural inequalities really do bite.

I'm actually starting to think about it recently. I had always thought I'd pootle along in my career and I didn't want to be a manager or anything, but I'm 40 now, my kids aren't tiny anymore and I quite fancy turning things up a notch, but it's slightly tricky as I'm not in a very managerial track, in a not-very-well-paid world. My manager is keen to boost me, even to the point of creating a new, more senior role within the team for me which has just been approved and I'm waiting to find out more about.

I think it's been a combination of kids growing up and seeing some inspirational women out there, and also wanting to be a bit more public facing. I'd like to do some public speaking because I actually feel I ought to given that I'm not scared of it, as a lot of people are, but I've never had a chance. I edit a professional journal from which platform I could speak about the subject matter, as I know it quite well now. In general, I'd like to show you don't have to be a supernova in your early career to get on later... I'm aware that may be harder than it sounds.

I feel like I'd like to set that example for my kids. My mum, bless her, meant well when telling me 'Oh, most women are more sensible than to want a managerial job' and stuff like that, but it probably did encourage me to be less ambitious than I might have been.

Part of leaning in is perhaps about feeling you can be ambitious for yourself.

I’ve not read the book but do think there are some important messages.

I subscribe to the notion of keeping my toe in. After DC1 I knew I couldn’t continue my career (long hours, pt not optional etc) so after mat leave I applied for a few jobs that fit my background but they were at entry level (lacked experience). After a year in the first job I moved to another job as I now had some experience. I moved again & now I have a really good position still pt but with long term prospects. However I completely acknowledge that I was privileged in that DH could pay for childcare in order to facilitate me starting again, plus I had gps to help. Not every woman can afford to work or retrain & some are happy at home which is fine.

There is a difference how men & women view themselves in the work place. A few years ago DH got a pay rise but wasn’t happy with it. The next day he went back to the boss & asked for x. He got more money & his boss told him he really respected that DH had asked for more. I think a women asking for more would be judged.

Oh yes I have said before that a suggested pay rise for an unasked for promotion was not enough and it went down like a shot sandwich, boss was furious!!! Illogically so.

Echo, I think my mother was the opposite which is partly why my career went quite well. That wuold partly be because her own father died when she was 4 months so her own mother always had to work and the mother before that was widowed with a new baby too and my own mother supported my father for about 10 years from her teaching earnings when he was a student - he was doing exams to over age 30 as 3 year degree than 5 year medical degree and then post grad stuff. I then also earn a lot more htan my children's father too so back to about 1917 or earlier it has been women earning most of the money in this family. Do do speaking if you can. i do a lot and try to ask women on to speak with me too as men never seem to be shy at pushing themselves forward. I started just by in about 1992 writing to every conference company in the country in my area - most did not reply but enough did to get me started (and I only speak if paid)