How much wine is to much

[beanflicker]

Please help settle a debate with Dh.

I've just put the kids to bed (as always at 8:15) waltzed down the stairs and poured myself a large glass of wine. My Dh has pointed out I go through 4 bottles per week.
Help me out ladies is that to much?

It’s not great but it’s your business, not your DH’s.

It's really not a puritanical issue we have a problem with alcohol in this country. Small changes can make a big difference. The OP isn't drinking in moderation is she?

Def too much. It’s way above 14 units. I think there’s about 6 in one bottle so you’re having 24 per week (assuming that’s the only alcohol you drink). Blimey, if I have a couple of large glasses, so poss half a bottle, I feel rank the next day but I’m not a massive drinker now and can go a week or two without it if the opportunity doesn’t present itself.

It is her husband's business, living with a heavy drinker may be fine or it may not be. You don't know what she's like after drinking it's a thoughtless comment.

Petite of course it's her husband's business! Would you be saying the same if it was the husband getting canned every night?

Four bottles a week probably is a bit much. Not to the extent of liver disease though, get a grip people.

I personally would be far more worried about the short and long-term effects on cognition. A UK study published in the BMJ has shown that people drank just 14-21 units a week had three times the normal odds of damage to the part of the brain concerned with memory.

No I don’t think it’s his business. If my husband had half a bottle a night but was still a fully active member of the household, which most people would be on that much (just a couple of glasses a day) I would leave him to it. Personal autonomy.

I’m not a big drinker myself btw, I just believe adults should make their own decisions about their own health.

Yes that's too much. I have a bottle per week on average, sometimes 2. I limit myself to half a bottle at once when drinking to avoid going over this. I also add a lot of soda water to my wine to make it last longer.

Petite we have no way of knowing whether there's any impact on the OP's relationship due to her drinking. And I say this as a former 'big drinker' myself. If my partner had ever said to me, 'I think you're drinking too much', I'm not sure how I would have reacted, honestly. I don't know whether I would have agreed, and I might have felt resentful or defensive, but this attitude that you don't get to have an opinion when it's someone you share your life with - I find that a bit odd, to say the least.

Reading this thread has made me realise I am drinking too much. Mentioned it to DD and she said “ well actually....”. Think I am going to find it hard but I would like to lose a few pounds before my holiday so am going to try .

Oldbutstillgotit I lost two stone when I stopped drinking! I was probably drinking around the same as the OP before. Good luck - it is hard at first but it does get easier.

Petitpamplemouse...agree with that.
The only research that has conclusively shown correlation with adverse health effects, have been where consumption is at the upper end of the scale. In fact research has also shown that light drinkers fare better on morbidity and mortality, than those who never drink at all. As for moderate drinkers, no study has ever been able to find a convincing correlation, other than the fact, that drinkers at the upper end of the social scale, tend to have better health outcomes than those at the lower end of the scale, in terms of other aspects of their health and well being. In other words, there are too many other factors involved, to be able to draw any feasible conclusions. Genetics, lifestyles, and education..all ultimately have some bearing on how we fare, physically, emotionally and physically. So in that sense, having a few drinks every week, is hardly the death knell some puritans would have you believe.
I know many well educated, successful, vibrant and sociable people who are still remarkably fit & healthy in their 50s, like me. We haven’t aged into crumbling degenerative wrecks. And while we are by no means ‘alcoholic’, we have all regularly enjoyed a few glasses of wine. Some days I may not fancy one at all, some days I fancy a couple with my evening meal, and weekends tend to socialise a little more. By and large it all balances out, and that’s why I believe I have remained young looking, fit & healthy.
In fact when I think about it, the only people I know with health issues, are the ones with weight issues. One lady I know has never drank, yet is very overweight, and has been taking BP meds for years. She looks unhealthy and IS unhealthy, and yet constantly berates her slim & much healthier husband, for enjoying a couple of g&ts every now and again! I always find it odd.
Yes we are all adults, and in the absence of obvious excess, should all be able to decide our own limits.

But Mum2two, the op isn’t having ‘a few glasses per week’; she is having a few glasses per day. However you dress it up, that’s 3-4 glasses of wine per day, and 5-6 units. That’s a lot, and I think you’re minimising.

Anyway, whether the op lives until she’s sixty or a hundred, she has a dependence on alcohol, and that’s not great! Personally, I would want to explore the deeper reasons beyond that, other than ‘oh it helps me to relax’ or ‘oh it’s sociable’ etc, because it is actually possible to relax and socialise without it.

I massively cut down my drinking when I realised that I had an addiction, or at least a dependence. It was really hard at first, especially at 5pm when I’d start thinking about my first drink, but I didn’t want it to control me anymore!

It’s only now that I’ve cut right down that I’ve realised how much more amazing life is without it: clearer thoughts, less anxiety, a healthier bank balance, better skin, better sleep, weight loss (not that I needed to), and best of all it has wiped out the mild depression that has hung over me all my adult life.

Anyway I know that may sound sanctimonious but it’s hard not to evangelise a little about it because it has been a life-changer for me. Once, I may not have thought four bottles a week was crazy, but it’s only now I’m out of the woods that I do.

The only research that has conclusively shown correlation with adverse health effects, have been where consumption is at the upper end of the scale.

Unfortunately that's not true. Adverse effects on memory (which may or may not be associated with an increased risk of dementia or AD in the longer term) and other cognitive defects have been shown at levels of consumption within recommended levels.

That’s great Friendly, but it sounds like it was you that made that decision to cut down, no doubt for reasons that have reaped rewards you have described. And that’s great. But not everybody is adversely affected in the same way. I’m sure if OP feels it is affecting her detrimentally in some way, she might think more about it. There may be some people who would have fared less well on my consumption over the years, and if I had, I’m sure I might have had the inclination to be more mindful about it. But I haven’t, and I don’t think I could be any healthier for my age! And I believe it’s because I have had a balanced approach. If I feel like I want a few glasses of wine, I have it. If I don’t, I don’t! It’s simple, I don’t think about it, and I don’t count. And I do the same with food. Some weeks I consume more than others, but generally I would say it is fairly moderate overall. Does that make somebody dependant? The fact that you have the philosophy in life, of having what you enjoy, when you want it, if you want it? My only surviving uncle who is now in his 90s, still cycles everywhere, and is a regular at his remote village pub. And not because he’s a dependant alcoholic, but because he has always enjoyed a couple of drinks each day, and as a robust, healthy 90+ year old, with his same sharp mind and keen wit, sees no reason why he should stop. If that’s dependency, then I see no wrong in that. If it was affecting it his health however, it would no doubt be a different matter. We are all different...that’s all I am saying. Only OP knows her own well being. Not one size fits all...and what might define one person as being ‘dependant’, might not define another.

I agree Chanel, but having just completed a period of post grad study, with quite considerable success, I’m not overly concerned about that either! Again, as you rightly did clarify, there are many other reasons why our faculties might fade as we get older. We’ve just got to try and take a sensible balanced approach..one that works for us as best we know

I just can’t stand when people try to control their partner’s choices. I’m an exercise nut and healthy but I think if someone of glasses of wine a day, sugary treats, whatever, and it doesn’t affect their family life (which that much wine wouldn’t because it doesn’t make you drunk) then it’s YOUR business. Not your DP’s.

Mumto2two
I'm not entirely clear on the point you wish to make, but you are rightly proud of your recent academic achievement. However, as a doctor, I believe its very important that people are provided with accurate information, to allow them to make an informed decision. In this case. that's understanding that even moderate alcohol consumption may be associated with risks, and that these effects are irreversible - not as you stated where consumption is at the upper end of the scale.

Chanelprincess, of course it is right we are provided with accurate information on matters relating to our health. But it is also right that we are able to form our own personal judgements on those matters too..and act accordingly as we ourselves deem fit. That’s not for anyone else to decide or dictate. That is the point I am making.

And yes..the crucial phrase you too, have quoted..is ‘may’ be associated with risks. As with pretty much everything we do in life...

I’m sure if OP feels it is affecting her detrimentally in some way, she might think more about it.

If you'd ever seen someone descend into alcoholism, you'd know they're generally in denial about the situation. Which is not to say the OP is an alcoholic or that anyone else drinking that amount is destined to become an alcoholic. But alcohol can have creeping affects that people will lie to themselves about. As a PP said, alcoholism creeps up on you. No-one flicks a switch. You can pass from moderate drinking, to heavy drinking to outright dependency and not be aware that you're doing it.

And I think if the OP's partner is concerned it is entirely reasonable and right that he raise this with her. There's no need to label him or anyone else as puritanical or pearl clutching, just because you don't want to hear what they're saying. I really wish we'd pushed my dad more 15 years ago, when we could have done something, than now when he has irreversible brain damage from TIAs. He got defensive and didn't think he was drinking too much, but to many people around him it was evident that he was. So if you're nearest and dearest start to say you're drinking too much, maybe listen rather than be defensive. They probably have a clearer picture than the person doing the drinking.

I believe it’s because I have had a balanced approach. If I feel like I want a few glasses of wine, I have it. If I don’t, I don’t! It’s simple, I don’t think about it, and I don’t count. And I do the same with food. Some weeks I consume more than others, but generally I would say it is fairly moderate overall

I think you're lucky that you can do that. Some people can't. Some people are unable to balance things out and actually DO need to count and be careful. As you keep saying, we're all different. And some people need to be very careful about their consumption and for them, it will be easier to stop at the 4 bottles a week stage, than at the 2-3 bottles a day stage.

I think it’s a habit op. You put the children to bed and it’s your relax time. I get you totally.

Could you just make a small change like do that but every other day? So no wine tues , thurs, Sunday’s? Small changes can have big effects.

I drink 2/3 bottles in one go maybe twice a month I think that is probably worse

‘may’ be associated with risks. As with pretty much everything we do in life...

Correct - but this 'may' also applies to overweight and obesity as well as to alcohol consumption.