To be disgusted that Dr Christian Jessen considers some kinds of child rape to be morally excusable on cultural grounds

[frankexchangeofviews]

I’ve just seen this exchange between ‘tv celebrity’ doctor Christian Jessen and an other Dr who is a spokesman for the Green Party on twitter. Are they saying what I think they are saying? Child’s marriage is recognised as a crime worldwide that needs to be stopped , not condoned on the basis of cultural relativism. Maybe they think african girls don’t mind as much???? Or are happy to be mothers at 13. I can’t get my head around it at all.

Someone should ask him whether throwing gay men off buildings is murder...

Motherofallbeasts Of course he automatically is a misogynist and definitely a racist too!

He seems to understand the nuance more than others. This isn't a simple question.

In the UK it is illegal to have sex under the age of about 16. Of course women can be raped but men can't so heterosexual sex between 2 15 year olds could mean the girl is raped and the boy is sexually assaulted. Of course, other countries more sensibly have laws where men can be raped by women.

In Mexico, the legal age of consent of consent is 17. By their standards, the UK government is allowing child rape at 16. In Bahrain it's 21. In Monaco the age of consent is 17.

What makes the ages of 16 and 18 in the UK correct? They're arbitrary numbers.

The 'I must be right cuz I am' school of thought simply shows inability to consider varied opinions.

FFS read it again iron man
Dr AH " Western society imposes its moral expectations on communities in the global south"
Dr CJ - yes you are so right

Jessie is right - people can (and do) use the same argument to object to campaigns against FGM.

I wonder if either of them would use the same argument to oppose criticism those countries with the death penalty for homosexuality. Doubt it

Henry Tudors mother gave birth to him at 12 years old.

If we discuss this from a cultural and historical perspective, we also allowed child marriage.

Does that make it OK?
Does it fuck. We dont tend to apply critical thought to the rape and sexual abuse of children because there is no way to make it morally acceptable, no matter what culture you are from.

12 year olds are simply not developed enough to be able to carry an child to term and give birth, the pelvic girdle bones are not fully grown nor fused.

That isnt a post cononial viewpoint its medical, something one would expect doctors to understand.

I think reminding those who (quite rightly) want to put a stop to FGM and child 'marriage' that storming in to other countries where there is a long history of colonialism and oppression of indigenous people, telling them they are all barbarian monsters and ordering them to change their ways is not likely to be effective. I appreciate that Western governments have set about enforcing 'regime change' for lesser reasons than the systemic abuse of women and girls, which can make it tempting to attack and blame any white man saying 'but cultural background' but then war-to-overturn-regimes hasn't necessarily done the victims of tyranny much good in the past.

mellow, we are talking about 12 year old girls. Sexual relations at that age is child abuse, no matter where you are. Do you disagree? Why do you think men should be allowed to have sex with 12 year olds?

Being culturally acceptable doesn’t mean it’s right. Any more than slavery was ever morally ok in the West even when it was culturally acceptable.

It’s not about projecting Western values onto other countries, but feminist values. The revolutionary idea that women and girls are not things but autonomous individuals, entitled to respect and good treatment.

Mellow 16 and 18 are not arbitrary.

The pelvis girdle is fully grown and fused in women in late teens.

This can vary, so in some girls it will be complete age 15, others not for a few more years.

However bearing the weight of pregnancy and going through childbirth before this process is complete can lead to huge medical complications.

FFS read it again iron manDr AH " Western society imposes its moral expectations on communities in the global south"

Don't FFS me, thats not what your picture quotes, at all.

But western societies DO impose their moral expectations on the global south. That doesn't even slightly mean that they are saying that child marriage is just fine, you dimwit. It's saying you cant simply say "you can't do this as we have decided its bad, even though its always been a part of your culture". You have to understand that culture and work on education and intervention that doesn't simply impose from your own place of privilege and percieved superiority.

The ignorance here is astonishing.

if it wasn't for evil bastards like these two scumbag shitheads then these weddings could be stopped more often. a wedding of a 12 year old girl to a 21 year old man was just cancelled in Indonesia because people said 'this is wrong'.

it's not complicated, right-on wanker doctors

if it wasn't for evil bastards like these two scumbag shitheads then these weddings could be stopped more often

Are you high?

I don't think that's quite right Tatiana. The human body is designed to cope with pregnancy best at younger ages, including the later teen years.

Read up on the biology then.

and that was cancelled not because of Western arseholes going on about privilege and perceived superiority, but because Indonesians themselves objected.

nobody needs these wanker doctors to commentate on the 'global south' like some sort of noble savage curiosity. If they don't want to judge, then STFU.

Regime change/colonialism has never been about eradicating systemic abuse towards women and girls. If anything it has only ever sought to further entrench it.

How would we know it wouldn't work if we've never tried it.

charleston - are you really arguing that girls who have not completed puberty and not finished growing are at an optimum age to get pregnant? Jesus wept. Please think before you spout nonsense

www.livescience.com/19584-10-year-birth.html

There are lots of things that are cultural - FGM, circumcision, killing baby girls, aborting female foetuses, child marriage and rape. None of them are okay.

nobody needs these wanker doctors to commentate on the 'global south' like some sort of noble savage curiosity

So very much this.

As if the women are somehow different there.

IronMan can you post the tweets where either of the doctors have explained why child marriage is medically unacceptable, or talked about educating other cultures on why that is so?

So far all Ive seen is them saying is its about morals vaules, and that lovely statement about how those girls arent the same anyway.

The racist fucking dicksplash

@Juells you’ve taken a single post and had it twisted for you.

It’s simply not what he said/meant.

It’s wrong that it happens, but it happens as it’s accepted and the norm - so what can we do to change that? Just go online and shout OMG PEDOS, or perhaps try to understand to change?

Absolutely nobody is ignoring their rights, in fact they HAVE NO RIGHTS - which is the WHOLE POINT. You really shouldn’t take snippets of a conversation if you don’t understand what is going on.

Funny how the children are always girls isn't it?

Another fucking misogynist using twitter to spout his bullshit.

No one buys the argument that fox hunting should be allowed simply because it’s part of our “culture”.

So why the fuck does culture get used to excuse things like Child rape, forced marriages and FGM.

The women may be slightly different, in that puberty onset ages do differ quite a bit by country, but this equation is not going to end up more in favour of marrying off 12 year olds in any case.

In defending cultural differences what these doctors are really defending men’s right to fuck who they like.

Trevor Phillips on a related issue;

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b078hlsz

Listen from 4:10

Henry Tudors mother gave birth to him at 12 years old.

In fairness that was frowned upon even at the time - it absolutely ruined her physically, which is why he never had a sibling.

I think there's a fair debate to be had about chronological age limits being arbitrary (what is it that actually differentiates a 15y11m29d from a 16y0m0d) but this isn't the way to do it.

Dr Christian is often a twat on Twitter.

None of them are okay.

They are, they are, they just need to be seen in context. By men.