To be disgusted that Dr Christian Jessen considers some kinds of child rape to be morally excusable on cultural grounds

[frankexchangeofviews]

I’ve just seen this exchange between ‘tv celebrity’ doctor Christian Jessen and an other Dr who is a spokesman for the Green Party on twitter. Are they saying what I think they are saying? Child’s marriage is recognised as a crime worldwide that needs to be stopped , not condoned on the basis of cultural relativism. Maybe they think african girls don’t mind as much???? Or are happy to be mothers at 13. I can’t get my head around it at all.

I really wouldn't call "bring it, bitches" abusive confused

Really?

abusive to who?

Good work ProfessionalBarren

Posting Dr Anita Sharma’s response to Harrop:

@ImAnitaSharma

Bullshit. Have you ever read the UN convention on the Rights of the Child? There isn’t a single paragraph that discusses emphatically understanding the cultural issues involved before protecting children.

In fact, Article 14 states: Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs may be subject ONLY to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health or morals, or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.

Article 19: States Parties shall take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the child from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation..
... including sexual abuse, while in the care of parent(s), legal guardian(s) or any other person who has the care of the child.

Please find me a single paragraph that agrees with your statement. Hint: there isn’t one.

We can go even further. In 2015 UNGA ratified the resolution to end child, early and forced marriage. Nowhere in that resolution was a call to discuss cultural issues — in fact, one of the key elements is a call for all states to work “with civil society”

Myfriendbob
Again, please show any tweets either Christian or Adrian have sent where they said they are against child marriage. Or child sex abuse.

Yet again, Id point out they have both been asked repeatedly if they oppose it. In Christians case, for years.

Please show just one tweet where they have said they are against it.

If there isnt any, then why are they discussing it?

That Dr Christian is creepy, anyway. Why is anyone surprised?

shudder

I got the twitter feed you linked to ProfessionalBarren , very interesting regarding the convention on the rights of a child.

Here's a link:

www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

I am not backtracking. The phrase I actually wanted to use, which I thought wasn't clear enough, is that pregnancy is a young woman's business. Yes, I didn't use the word women. My mistake. However, the only way that my post makes sense is if I am talking about women when I write 'younger ages'.

Thanks for posting that Tatiana

Re the 'Bring it...' comment, I think the comment was offensive to the 'bitches' he was talking to, who were pretty offended. Oh and he then deleted it which suggests he knew it was offensive.

That was to Tartyflette

I used to work with someone who knew Dr Christian. Massive coke head apparently.

I've read his feed and I am agreeing with @Hyppolyta. This seems to be less about raising awareness to prevent child brides then it is about justifying why it isn't to be considered pedophilia.
These men who rape children are pedophiles regardless of where in the world they are. I can see where he is trying to make the distinction and I don't agree.
Unless it is literally gun to head you must marry this child then the man could say no. An option I doubt they offer to the little girl.

Even then gun to the head situation there is no actual need to carry on and rape the girl. They do it because they want to and their society they have build allows them to do this.

I watched this documentary about the Addis Ababa fistula hospital.
It really opened my eyes to the physical and social consequences of early childbirth.
A Walk to Beautiful

He was also on the Wright Stuff saying teachers should use porn in the classroom teaching. twitter.com/5WrightStuff/status/991347011143196672

No teacher would touch this with a bargepole.

Tatiana
But even late teens have poorer outcomes for mother and baby just from immaturity.

Emotional immaturity? I did mention the issue of emotional development.

Thank you Titania for posting that.

goodness all these people accusing me of 'frothing' It will be 'pearl clutching' next

I entirely agree that his first point was fine- the degree to which something is morally reprehensible has to take context into account. This is why we don't bang on about ancient Greeks been evil paedos because it was acceptable for older men to mentor and shag young boys.

The problem arises from what Harrop then said and Jessen's approving response. Sorry but if you are not shocked by the idea that disapproval of child marriage is based on colonial moralism or whatever you are frankly racist.

Emotional yes, but also developmental maturity. Some 16year olds have fully matured bodies, others are still developing which can lead to problems such as the fistulas mentioned.

tooyoungtowed.org/#/explore

True.
Although it isnt hard to out-science a doctor who isnt sure of the difference between men and women

Emotional immaturity? I did mention the issue of emotional development

You did in a completely different context:

The main reason for discouraging teen pregnancies is to promote education and emotional development

Ie avoiding teen pregnancies to enable girls to mature.

I was noting the poorer outcomes (eg higher infant mortality rates) for mothers under 20.

CharlestonChaplin tell us that late teen years girls are better suited to pregnancy and childbirth etc.......

Try reading:

www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/publications-a-z/436-adolescent-maternal-mortality-an-overlooked-crisis

Extract: Adolescents age 15 through 19 are twice as likely to die during pregnancy or child birth as those over age 20; girls under age 15 are five times more likely to die.[2,6,7]

So mid and late teens only twice as likely to die as those over 20. That's ok then.

Quite right Blurry

Is throwing homosexuals off buildings in Iran acceptable because 'cultural tradition' too?

I don't think any girl should be married against her will. I will say, based on some years living in rural west Africa, that girls of 13/14 are quite often keen to marry. These are girls from communities where there is neither access to education or healthcare - for anyone. They work alongside their mothers from the age of 3 or 4, learning the skills to be an adult in that community. By 13/14 they are keen to be treated as grown up (life gets easier the older you are, totally different to here), they are interested in sex, a husband and children will give them status. From their perspective you can see why its the logical next step - and in the context of their lives they are probably right. Birth is an acknowledged risk but if you have no children you are nothing - and you're at high risk of death anyway (a girl I knew died of appendicitus shortly before her wedding, others died of malaria, or typhoid (exacerbated by malnutrition).

And whilst I'd say none of this ^^^ is good, it does seems strange to concentrate on teenage marriage as being the big problem in their lives. Access to a better diet, access to basic healthcare, freedom from FGM, access to education, - these would lead to them having meaningful choices about their lives, which might then include alternatives to early marriage. But without these, what else would they be choosing?