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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Influencer ethics on Instagram

999 replies

MadameGrizzly · 09/05/2018 21:56

Continuing the discussion on whether influencing on Instagram is an ethical business model, particularly around the disclosure of advertising and the over exposure of children.

AIBU to think it isn't a sustainable career unless the influencer is scrupulously ethical?

OP posts:
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SurfingUSA · 11/05/2018 18:19

Ah sorry FlyingBird and CM, gotcha.

StyleMesunday hasn't mentioned MN as far as I know and has made her position re the trans issue clear so full points to her.

SurfingUSA · 11/05/2018 18:21

Ps Grizzly do you think an IGer can only be 'ethical' /authentic if they are not selling something?

Badmotherpukka · 11/05/2018 18:27

@SurfingUSA, it was my husband and I by the washing machine in the Fairy videos - he regularly puts a load on, too. And know it wasn’t a dig at me - more the bigger picture.

SurfingUSA · 11/05/2018 18:31

Lol, as I said that was poor phrasing. You're clearly very much not just in the kitchen.

CuntinuousMingeprovement · 11/05/2018 18:38

And yy re the tone of the criticism, the level of entitlement displayed from people who are literally treating women who are online as a commodity. You just don't get to decide you're owed anything from the people who you're trying to profit from.

Much as I find it unethical to use your kids to promote your brand, or turn them into your brand, I can see how that might possibly come from a place of wanting the best for them. I'm not sure most of them realise how much risk they're potentially taking in terms of the information they put out there, and how easy it might be for a predator to join the dots. And I can also see why someone might make the calculation that yes, I am selling my child's privacy while they are too young to consent, but in return for that I am going to ensure they get a trust fund, that they get a childhood with me around a lot more, that they get all the advantages possible.

So I can see how MOD might be like, I just can't face these fucking shifts any more with baby twins, I'm going to crack up, I will do what I need to in order to earn money in other ways instead and make sure we finally get to buy a house. Like I said, I don't agree with it, but I could see at least that there might be a belief that it's better for the child overall (I have no idea about any of their financial circumstances prior to IGing btw, so for all I know their kids all have trust funds anyway, I'm just rhapsodising).

But the flogging of stuff, the commercialism- this is not of any benefit to anyone except them and the shareholders of the company. They're not helping anyone. By all means sell a product, I'm not anti-business. Hustle away. But don't imagine the people to whom you are pitching somehow owe you the duty not to say anything you don't like. Go after anything actually defamatory and/or false, of course. But otherwise, stop whining.

Badmotherpukka · 11/05/2018 18:55

@FlyingBird I was referring to this thread - perhaps not clear. You are right, women should not blindly support other women. That wasn’t what I was implying or saying. I absolutely believe in argument, discussion and even division - if it results in progression of some sort. Keeping it to this thread topic, it has been noted that there has been increased transparency around #ad so that’s good. Discussion and division leading to positive change. Sorry to not be able to add more, it will be divorcing the shit out of life soon if I don’t put my phone down. Have a good weekend all.

Stopyourhavering64 · 11/05/2018 18:57

I think what some of them don't like is that they've been 'found out' re the lack of transparency in what was #ad #gifted...or whatever they want to call it
At the end of the day many of them are just flogging merchandise while trying to sugarcoat it with a message ...they're not enhancing my life or making me feel better about myself
If I've got mental health issues I certainly wouldn't look on a square of an 'influencer' to help me out....all of a sudden everyone's a mental health expert
I've now seen through their tactics , but I'm sure there are many more vulnerable people who hang on their every movement/ story to be accepted as one of the gang

FlyingBird · 11/05/2018 19:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadameGrizzly · 11/05/2018 19:31

It is not a women's role to please everyone else all the time to the detriment of themselves - even if the does result on adult baby tantrums on instastories.

This is such an astute comment.

SurfingUSA I believe an influencer can be both ethical and authentic, and earn an income from Instagram.

Paid advertising and affiliate marketing need to be clearly disclosed as per the ASA guidelines (and the guidelines in my opinion are like CMS child support calculations: a starting point). I've no problem with anyone earning an income from their endeavours as long as the intended audience/consumers are made aware THIS IS PAID ADVERTISING. So many women, who are otherwise probably lovely mothers, friends and partners, ripping their audience off with hidden advertising. Such unethical behaviour. So much for women supporting other women. I don't want to be clearing cookies from my device continually because you don't like the look of #affiliatelink on your temporary instastory.

I would like to see #gifted products consistently marked as such and genuinely reviewed. As I noted in an earlier thread, the Sunday newspapers used to be given complimentary travel tours and accomodation which they reviewed honestly. I seem to even recall pros and cons dot points: the location and views were superb, the bathroom was immaculate but the pillows need replacing and the milk provided at breakfast was stingy. That sort of constructive feedback is useful for the hosts and the consumer. #withoutfearorfavour An honest review would demonstrate to me that an influencer is ethical and authentic, not just selling themselves out for a pair of #gifted flip flops.

I strongly believe that children should not be online props for their parents whether that's for blog content or Instagram advertising. I've been having this discussion for at least a decade since the very early mommy bloggers appeared. We don't own our children or their online footprint - we don't yet know what the implications are of having a vast online footprint from childhood. Once you trade a child's privacy for that pair of #gifted flip flops, you can't get it back. Having said that, the odd family photo on Instagram that doesn't contain advertising either hidden or paid? It's not what I'd choose, but no one will go straight to hell for it. I suppose it adds to the account's authenticity.

The question is: are there any influencer accounts that meet this criteria? There are some that come close, but it's usually the whole gushing about #gifted products that lets them down. It would be helpful if the ASA had tighter guidelines around this, particularly in regards to alcohol.

OP posts:
CuntinuousMingeprovement · 11/05/2018 19:31

At the end of the day many of them are just flogging merchandise while trying to sugarcoat it with a message ...they're not enhancing my life or making me feel better about myself

Yeah, this. Hawk away, if you must. We all have bills to pay. But don't delude yourself it's anything more.

MadameGrizzly · 11/05/2018 19:33

I've got to say, while I've always been horrified by the exploitation of children for online content, these threads have helped me clarify why influencer marketing is so problematic.

OP posts:
Dozer · 11/05/2018 19:36

Totally agree on DCs’ privacy.

Have always disliked magazine and newspaper fashion section marketing, and just assume that instagrammers are similarly advertising stuff supplied to them by retailers.

MarshaBradyo · 11/05/2018 19:43

Completely agree with you FlyingBird

If we are within Mn guidelines our posts are ok, and should not be controlled by an outside influence.

And agree that we’re not selling something (or using dc as content to sell) by posting here - one of the big reasons I do, and the pro of this for me is to discuss what I want (within rules). The con, unlike IGers, is I don’t make money, or get freebies, but I’m happy with that and choose it. But it means we pretty much can carry on as we are without progressing to some middle ground that benefits others much more than posters on here

finks100 · 11/05/2018 19:48

I still believe there is an MLM element to this. The instagrammers get likes, which sells more product but the likers/commentators hope to get noticed so they can begin the sales journey too.

SurfingUSA · 11/05/2018 19:48

You've nailed it Grizzly and FlyingBird 👏🏻

finks100 · 11/05/2018 19:49

The talk of empowerment and being your own boss is very similar to the language used in MLM marketing!

PavlovaPrincess · 11/05/2018 19:49

Yes, agree with FlyingBird. This is foremost a discussion site and as such and within MN guidelines, we shouldn't be dominated by outside influences, even though I welcome all rational points of view.

we don't yet know what the implications are of having a vast online footprint from childhood

And this from @MadameGrizzly The featuring of kids on very large IG accounts (and even small ones) makes me very, very uneasy.

CuntinuousMingeprovement · 11/05/2018 19:52

Mmm, maybe. I hadn't thought of it in those terms before but a lot of them sort of use recruiting people, don't they? As in, followers. And then they follow people and follow those people's followers, and the only ones making any money are at the top of the tree. It's not a direct flow of cash from the bottom to the top like Forever Living etc, there's a middle man in the way ie whatever crap they're flogging. But the effect is similar. That's a really good point actually.

jamoncrumpets · 11/05/2018 19:53

I'm still waiting to hear the justification from influencers for attending the Avon (MLM/dodgy ethics) meal the other night.

jamoncrumpets · 11/05/2018 19:54

I don't see influencers selling as being like MLM. I see it as celebrity endorsement, without the celebrity.

finks100 · 11/05/2018 20:03

I see what you mean Jamon but if you have a look at some of the accounts with low followers you can see them copying the style of the big accounts to try to get to the top of the money tree. I know they aren’t investing actual cash in a business but they are investing in a lifestyle that will get them the pictures and the likes to get to the top.
People of these threads have said they physically bought items to create the lifestyle of the bigger accounts, not realising it was all gifted!

jamoncrumpets · 11/05/2018 20:09

It's a greasy pole, for sure

Reboot · 11/05/2018 20:09

I think the kids issue won't be addressed more readily because there isn't a regulator as such hanging over the IGers like the ASA does (especially when IGers are now aware that MNers are happy to exercise their right to report if they see rules being broken).

Children's privacy is seen more of an ethical issue rather than a regulatory issue, imo. Where the parent is happy to share lots of personal details of themselves online, it follows that they may well be likely to be more relaxed about sharing details of their children as well. It's seen more of a matter of personal choice.

However children receive receive special protections under GDPR and there are restrictions on what personal data can be made public and this relies quite heavily on parental consent being given. It's not too much of a stretch to imagine a few legal issues some years down the track where children challenge their parents on whether they had their best interests at heart when they provided this consent by plastering details of their birth dates, schooling, health issues etc all over the internet. The best protection is obviously not doing this in the first place...

Reboot · 11/05/2018 20:13

Jamon, I only realised today you were like, Jam, on a Crumpet and not Jamon as in a Spanish hammy crumpet.

Sorry just an aside but I felt I had to get it off my chest Grin

jamoncrumpets · 11/05/2018 20:16

I genuinely love strawberry jam on crumpets. Crumpets toasted until they're a bit crispy on top.

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