Influencer ethics on Instagram

[MadameGrizzly]

Continuing the discussion on whether influencing on Instagram is an ethical business model, particularly around the disclosure of advertising and the over exposure of children.

AIBU to think it isn't a sustainable career unless the influencer is scrupulously ethical?

@Gobbolinothewitchscat good question and one I need to think a little more on. Just on the school run so not ignoring.

I genuinely would like to discuss this. I have a 4 year old DD and a 2 year old DD as well as a 5 year old DS. I don't want any of them socialised into this "be kind all the time" bollocks mantra. How many women do we read about who ended up having sex with men they didn't want because it wouldn't be "nice" or might be "upsetting" or "cause a scene" to say no. It is not a women's role to please everyone else all the time to the detriment of themselves - even if the does result on adult baby tantrums on instastories

A new colleague of mine used to work on a PR team which represented some of the high profile IGers. She said most of them were quite nice but essentially quite dim, despite their privileged MC lifestyles. Some of the women genuinely failed to see the irony in them being taxied round London in a Range Rover to a lunch meeting at The Woseley with other freebie Finery clad IGmers "to show support for under privileged women"

They were all terribly earnest and totally unselfaware. But at least their shoes were very pretty.

It is not a women's role to please everyone else all the time to the detriment of themselves - even if the does result on adult baby tantrums on instastories

Yes, I completely agree with this. What the hell is "be kind, always" about anyway?! Why should I always be kind to arseholes who don't deserve it?

It is not a women's role to please everyone else all the time to the detriment of themselves - even if the does result on adult baby tantrums on instastories

Yes, yes, yes!!

The only reason that there is a perceived divide is partly because people felt they couldn't question the bloggers and so came here to vent instead. And while I can understand that nobody likes feeling insulted, stepping outside your echo chamber once in a while doesn't hurt.

I don't know what the answer is to try and bridge the gap though. The IGers also won't be able to please everyone all of the time (and that's ok too).

I wouldn’t like Mn to be more like IG in tone

I don’t want constant validation or you go talk etc

I do want good conversation, hanging out with friends and something that makes me laugh at times

Each social platform creates the type of talk you get. So image / comments will be different to linear and I’m happy with that

I use IG to look at fashion, style and fluff, I use here for chat. So I don’t want it to be the same big friyay, hun-type, mama ( really not mama) place. It would be so much worse

Also if people want to talk about the effect of using children on sm and question it that should be ok

I don't want MN to be IG either but there are a lot on MNers on IG and vice versa, I'd imagine, so I don't really understand why it's 'them' vs 'us'.

Also if people want to talk about the effect of using children on sm and question it that should be ok

Agree. I think it's actually a pertinent discussion, and I don't want it shut down with 'your bubz, your rules, hun'.

The divide isn't media driven on this occasion - mama bear NB and MOD drove it.

People (women) are on both MN and IG. They have only been allowed to express an opinion on MP's post about the 'divide', as far as I can see. Other IGers let their packs of fans lynch anyone who dares to dissent on posts. Now that is bullying in my view.

Sorry - was on school run too so forgot to make clear: my point above also relates to instagrammers - do what you want. But don't try and shut down other women (or men)'s perfectly valid discussion of that. Fed up of hearing that only women of a certain type or stating giving a certain message should be listened to.

If Natasha Bailey is genuinely interested in feminism, she should head over to Twitter and look at some of the horrific tweets regarding women who refuse to accept the biological falacy that men can change sex. Full of right on woke dudes telling women to be quiet and hoping they have "learned their lesson" after daring to speak out. This is grist to their mill - women conditioning other women to shut up. To know their place. To agree unthinkingly. To "be kind". Why would any woman who genuinely likes other woman want to be part of that. Men like that laugh at those stupid t-shirts

There is far less free discussion on those type of accounts than here from what I saw

I want both platforms to be able to co-exist, which doesn't mean agreeing with each other all the time. I came here because I was surprised that I could see patently shady behaviour on IG and it was almost like everyone else was pretending that it wasn't happening. It was a relief to find out that other people were noticing the same things happening and I wanted to join in that conversation.

I go to IG for mindless scrolling and pretty pictures, occasionally stopping by to check in on someone I like and see what they are up to and yes, sometimes a bit of shopping. I come here for robust debate, to be challenged in my thinking and to be prepared to back up my opinions. It's not exactly relaxing on MN, but that's what I like about it.

So I go to each platform for different things. I don't want them to be the same, but I probably do want to keep on using both of them and I want to like what I see on both platforms.

MN has held up a mirror to some of the IGers at times. Some have taken that ok because they have either already thought through what they do and can justify it, and some have adapted if they need to. Some haven't, because they can't distinguish between criticism and attack and their response has been to respond aggressively back, or try to stop any discussion happening.

And it's ok for IG to hold up a mirror to MN as well, but that may result in a robust discussion about whether that is justified or not, but the discussion is the important bit. Trying to close down and silence discussion is not ok.

@reboot I agree, both should be able to co-exist and both should be equally held to account and questioned. Both are very different platforms with similar audiences (and ironically similar brands targeting those audiences - I worked on the same Fairy campaign that was flashing on web banners here recently). To answer @Gobblin, difference is fine but in my opinion, that doesn’t have to result in a divide. In terms of bridging the gap, it’s mostly down to people taking the time - on both ‘sides’ - to fully consider opposing views. Not finger pointing and I certainly do not wish for a world where we all agree. Right, kids tea.

I don't care about ads so long as they're clearly marked. I might have a little snigger to myself (or even on here) if an influencer started advertising germoloids or Tena lady, but that's because I'm childish and puerile. I also think it's ok to discuss the ads even when they're marked, in the same way that you'd discuss an ad on telly or in a mag.

On the whole though, if you can make money from it, good on you. (And I'm not talking about Pukka here) but I absolutely loathe the 'asking for recommendations' when it's clearly a blag. It's my pet peeve. Some of the bloggers get replies in the hundreds when they don't give a shit what the peasants think, they're just waiting for the brand to get in touch.

The thing with the be kind, don't criticise, disagreement is bullying thing that a lot of them are so into now, is that they don't seem to realise that what they're doing is not always very kind.

They're flogging a lifestyle that people are supposed to aspire to. It's staged. There are people paying attention to these feeds, this artifice, who feel very bad because of it. That's part of what motivates people to buy things, that's advertising and consumerism. Part of the way it functions is to persuade people there's something missing. Nothing new about that. You can dress it up in supportive noises and female friendship and yada yada, and at least a couple of them have had valid things to say at some point as well, yes. MPs flexible working stuff, MODs old midwifery blog etc. But that is what their business fundamentally is, for most of them. And kind, it is not.

I expect the response from them would be don't look then... but that's also true of MN. No fucker's making you read it.

And at the end of the day, if all being women means we have to agree with each other because feminism, I'm a woman, so they can all fall in with me. Rather than the preferred option of NB etc which appears to be vice versa.

CM your name alarms me but I like your message!

Also is there any irony in women find the best option of flexible working to be gurning into a phone selling fairy liquid. Back in the kitchen where they belong.

And that wasn't meant to be a dig at MP.

The aim is to be non-quotable in the DM and similar surfing!

It's an interesting point about this sudden empathy and advocacy for transwomen. There wasn't much of that before MN started to get critical of them for using their kids to flog posh tat, was there?

Lol CM, good thinking!

I haven't even seen the empathy. The 3 #dearmumsnet protagonists mentioned holly willoughby, new mums with Pnd, transwomen and erm in MOD's case, herself. After that just MOD was referenced as far as I could see.

I find it quite worrying that people who are publically displaying quite narcissistic qualities are being entrusted by big brands to influence the weaker, or at least, the unaware. The tone of voice that has been used against MN over the last few weeks by certain insta-characters has been vile and quite frankly, irresponsible; people who admire them will subliminally think it’s ok to block, intimidate, censor and behave like a spoilt angry child towards anyone who disagrees with you. If I were a big brand I would not want these people representing me.

I hope that wasn’t too inflammatory - feel free to report if so.

Yeah, 'empathy' in inverted commas! I am suspicious about the timing and authenticity of these sentiments, is what I'm saying. It appears that I'm not the only one.