To feel in a uniquely awful position and want to give up

[wishitwasallabaddream]

I honestly feel I have reached the point of being unable to bear any more.

I have a really difficult relationship with my mother. She was emotionally abusive and neglectful throughout my childhood and often deliberately cruel to me as an adult. A few years ago I made the decision to go NC. I have never regretted it. Every so often I get a nasty email from her, it knocks me off balance but reminds me that I have made a good decision. More recently I have filtered her emails to my spam folder so don’t always see them though one caught me by surprise a few weeks ago when I was searching my email for something else and it came up.

Our daughter who is now 21 is also very difficult. I’m not exaggerating when I say the years of her being 13-18 were a living hell. She was emotionally and occasionally physically abusive. She would start fights pretty much every day. She did badly at school and since then has been in a cycle of getting jobs then being sacked. She did some work for dh’s friend at one point who admitted she was very lazy and did the bare minimum. She is currently at home having been sacked from her latest job. We give her no money but she has her last pay so is using that. Last night I tried to speak to her about getting a new job and she screamed at me that I have never supported her or been proud of her. I really feel this is unfair, I have always tried to encourage her and support her and rarely stand up to her to be honest as she creates such scenes.

She texted me last night to say I am deluded if I think I’m a good mother and listed all my faults. I have now blocked her. She regularly sends me messages like this.

I don’t think my mental health can take much more. To be in a situation where you have an abusive mother and an abusive daughter (they do not get on so at least are not encouraging each other though DD knows I’m NC with her grandmother and regularly uses it as ammunition)

I have tried so hard to be a good mum to her as I have such an awful mother and this is all devastating. I also just see a future where we are stuck with DD as she is making herself unemployable.

I just don’t want to get out of bed this morning.

You sound a bit like you love playing the victim. Poor you.

Nasty bitchy remark. Unfounded, too.

Your daughter is not your mother. Agree with a pp that you seem to see yourself as a perrenial victim. You can't fix your mother, but you can change your relationship with your child and have a responsibility to do so.

Your dd is clearly unhappy. She's also learned through you that disfunctional relationships between a mother and daughter are 'normal', and a daughter giving up on her mother because she's such a lousy mother is 'normal'.

Your dd sounds like she needs a parent who loves her. Not enables her, but loves her.

Stop enabling the lack of practical responsibility but increase the emotional support. She may be an adult but she still needs to know you love her and are on her side. Even when she's being a pain. Especially when she's being a pain.

Your daughter knows what to say to achieve maximum hurt. She knows you had a terrible mother and don't wish to be like her, so your daughter knows where you are vulnerable in that area.

Time, hopefully, will change her attitude.

she screamed at me that I have never supported her or been proud of her. I really feel this is unfair

Is it? You've clearly supported her but not a single word in your long post suggests you're proud of your dd in any way. And she clearly feels this.

Instead of listing all the things you hate about her, why not try focusing on her positives, and on your positives. Tell her you love her but you find her behaviour really hard to deal with and upsetting. You don't have to be a pushover but you do need to try to understand that she seems to feel like she has nothing going for her - her own mother hates her, she can't hold down a job and did badly at school. She really needs you to believe in her - not to sort her life out for her (she has to do that) but to be rooting for her quietly from the sidelines.

Agree with her. Tell her you have listened to what she said and taken a long hard look at yourself and realised you have overcompensated for your own mother and been too permissive. Apologise and tell you you owe it to her to make it right and tell her how things are going to change. You could get a few counselling sessions to help you with setting out new rules or phrasing things. Give her a deadline and if she isn't contributing to the family and treating you and the house with respect, she has to leave. If she calls up saying she can't cope be loving and listening and ask her what she plans to do about her problems. You could make some suggestions but don't ask her to move back. Tell her you will always be here for her, meet her for lunches and things if she wants but don't ask her back or let her back.

@ShinyShooney

You made her! You need to fix her.

You sound a bit like you love playing the victim. Poor you.

Really unhelpful. To me it sounds like she's just inherited her grandmother's disposition, that does happen in families. The OP isn't playing the victim, she flipping is the victim of two abusive relationships. Don't have anything to contribute, hope things improve for the OP and she stands up for herself.

My friend was told be a counsellor that if you keep protecting them from the consequences of their mistakes and don't let them fall on their own they will never become resilient adults.

OP, there is no point of just simply going NC on abusive relationships, you need to change yourself other wise the situation will continue to repeat in the future albeit with different people.

Don’t even for a minute believe that you can do something drastic to get your DD respect in one go. If this has got this bad is because you have conditioned your DD to know that no matter how awful she is, you will take it lying down and give her whatever she wants as long as she shouts loud enough.

These patterns do not change over night, you need to work in knowing who you are, what you want and most importantly, what shit you are not prepared to put up with, so you can decide what your boundaries are and enforce them.

Do not expect that you can set a significant boundary with out resistance. This is something you need to build over time by saying “no” to trivial things to the point you can say “no” to important things and also for people to learn, little by little, that when you say no, you mean it.

jeanne16

I am shocked reading your post, do everything to make it up to mother and daughter? You clearly didn't read the part where her mother was cruel and neglectful for most of her childhood?

It may be there is a hereditary component to mental health difficulties and/or personality disorders. You can do your absolute best with someone but if they have a personality disorder, which rings some bells for me here, then you are really wasting your time to some extent. You do need to set your boundaries and only do what you can do, but your dd's pattern of behaviour sounds extreme and beyond simply being irresponsible or a bit spoiled, it sounds like she may have real issues which ideally would require psychiatric intervention, not just 'getting tough'. Good luck with it all OP a lot of this is luck and people find that hard to admit, I know lovely parents who have very difficult children with multiple issues and it does almost break them especially as they gave them a good childhood (not perfect, but good enough).

Op

Your mother and daughter are separate. Keep them separate in your mind. Your mother is parked in the nc drawer and she can stay there for as long as you want her to be there. You don't need to consider contact with her right now, esp if you are feeling fragile.

Your dd;

I suggest you all sit down for a family meeting. You draw up a contract that you all agree on, no more screaming, no more abuse, she is 21 and not a child or teen anymore. It will not be tolerated any longer. Your dd signs it on the understanding she can stay living with you, but she absolutely must abide by the rules or she is out, and she is out that day. Not in one week or whatever and she will not be welcome back.

You need to be absolutely rock solid and dp if you have one, so that you can introduce some respect and boundaries back into your life.

In the meantime assuming she is abiding by the house rules or respect and civility why not consider a girls weekend away just you two? Spend time in a relaxed way talking to her, find out what her dreams are for the future, show you care. Take walks and dinner, talk about the happy moments of he childhood and reconnect with her. The teen years have taken their toll on your relationship but there is still time to rekindle that special relationship.

Why not start a hobby together? Walking, running or yoga. You can do something that brings you together not tears you apart.

Cooking and wine tasting every Friday, theatre show or cinema. Anything that is neutral and can be enjoyed by both of you.

You need to remain strong on the respect front, if she lapses remind her of everything she has to lose, allow her to row back if she needs to from the position of aggression.

If she needs to retrain to find a job she enjoys maybe this would help her?

Remember every stage passes.

My mother had an awful mother and spent my whole life telling me what an AMAZING mother she was and how she dedicated her whole life to being a wonderful mother. She wasn't. She was horrific, absolutely awful - just in a different way to her mother.

So - there is absolutely no way of knowing from what you've written if that applies to you - but worth thinking about.

There is often a "nature" component to personality disorders/severe behavioural problems but very often it is the result of childhood environment (or combination).

It sounds like you maybe could have done a severe overcorrect. Have a google on enmeshment, parentification - could these have been ways you treated your daughter? "Spoiling" a child can be emotional abuse too - i.e. failing to set boundaries, not teaching a child how to manage, makng them reliant on a parent (who then resents the reliance).

So while your daughters behaviour is unacceptable - if you want to resolve it and your relationship I think you need to consider what parameters and rules you have set up for the relationship.

Failing all that get her assessed by the MH team to see if she genuinely has a problem.

Ignore the nasty posts here, they’ve clearly never experienced a difficult young adult child. It’s hell. They behave so badly yet need you so much.

Does your dd have a good or better relationship with any adults? Might they be roped into helping her get on track? I agree about protecting yourself from her spite- it’s not personal but you are an easy target. Plan nice things for yourself as a buffer. Consider getting counselling to try to understand yourself ( fascinating) and get support from friends and family wherever you can.

You don’t mention a partner but if you do have one, or even an ex ( her dad) you have to try to present a united front. When ds was at his worst it was very reassuring that it wasn’t ‘just me’ when dh refused to tolerate him speaking to me like shit.

My ds I loved beyond all measure after moving out and getting focussed on life although he did well in education so it’s not entirely the same. Oddly, he’s now the most empathetic member of our family.

Just go NC with your dm. Something else to thrash out with a counsellor but you don’t need or want her. She’s not your responsibility or priority whereas dd is.

On the contrary, it's because I've experienced something similar that I offer advice based on remembering that your dc is a person with vulnerabilities and feelings and not just a monster. The book The Explosive Child was hugely helpful to me. Realising that your child's bad behaviour doesn't mean that they - or you - are a bad person, just that they have to learn how to express their feelings more constructively and to find their own resolutions to their own problems is incredibly freeing.

It doesn't have to be anyone's fault - yours or hers. It just is. What matters is where you go from here.

Wow there are some right bitchy posts. Even if people think the OP might be at fault there is no need to make such nasty posts.

OP. Does your daughters Dad live with you? What is there relationship like?

If you had a cruel mother it is entirely possible you have just been way too soft on your dd with the kindest possible intention for her childhood to be the opposite of your own experience. This is not to be unexpected, and because she has had no boundaries or rules she has lost all respect for you.

I suspect she is struggling with the outside world because she is behaving like this and expecting the world to put up with it. She is now learning some very tough lessons.

The only way of earning the respect back from your dd is by insisting she is civil or there are serious consequences. You have to go back to the beginning and put those boundaries in place.

It is possible to be supportive and encouraging (and proud of her) without putting up with her bullshit.

She is an adult, you have no obligation to feed and house her anymore, so it might be worth reminding her that she is not entitled live at the family home, she is more than welcome as long as she is respectful. If you live with a partner they also need to really step it up and not in a lame way, but get your bags kind of way. It should be a very strong and coordinated response.

She will start to think twice the next time for sure.

Thanks for all of the kind and supportive replies, this is really helpful.

I do have a really supportive DH. She is horrendous to him as well. I don't actually know how I would have got this far without him! We also have older and younger children, the younger children adore DD and she adores them. It's partly for them though that we are avoidant and try not to create conflict as when DD goes for it she really goes for it - swearing, slamming doors, breaking things, and we want to try to protect the younger ones from that.

This is going to sound awful but there aren't actually that many times I have felt proud of DD in the past five years. She made a mess of her exams. She has made a mess of every job she has ever done. With the current job, it looked like it was working out for a good while before she was sacked, and I made sure I told her regularly how well she was doing, how proud I was of her, how happy I was that things were working out for her. Whenever I have the opportunity to praise her I do do it.

To be fair I think her getting sacked from the latest job was a shock to her. She showed me the list of reasons given - general laziness, attitude etc, and said that they had it in for her and it wasn't fair.

I do know that she can manage on her own, away from home, as she did it for a long stretch of time with one job. And I know she is much happier when she is away from home and with people her own age - she is a different person, we don't hear from her often (which is probably as it should be for a 21 year old) , we see photos of her on social media enjoying herself and she tells us when we do speak to her how happy she is.

So I have to tell myself I'm not being cruel or a bad mum in encouraging her to take up a new opportunity like this, and I also have to find the courage to get her to examine why previous jobs haven't worked out and that it's not them, it's her, and if she doesn't change her attitude she's going to continue getting sacked.

I think I am going to go for counselling. Also the idea of doing stuff just with her is nice. When I visited her a couple of years ago when she was overseas with her last job we had a lovely weekend and I really felt that we were turning a corner. She just regresses so badly when she is at home. I do think there is a bit of a personality disorder there, we sought help when she was younger but she refused to see counsellors or specialists.

I'm certain you're not the only one going through this. I had this too with my daughter. It was a nightmare. I would tolerate her behaviour for so long, then when it became unbearable, I'd snap and give her a piece of my mind. I was always the baddie, no matter how hard I tried to get her to open up about what her problem was. I physically threw her and her belongings out when she was 21 and things changed for the better. She returned home a year later and it all started again. I told her she needed to grow up and stop playing the victim. She has now got herself a little rented flat, works full time and is doing a degree. My daughter will now confide in me and actually listens to what I say on matters. Do yourself a massive favour and tell your daughter, she has over stepped the mark and her behaviour won't be tolerated anymore and she has to leave. At 21 she's an adult and has to realise this. She can always go live with granny if she thinks you're that terrible. When I threw my daughter out, the change in atmosphere in the household was immense. It was like a weight had been lifted. Be strong and don't give in to her. Tell her you're looking for her a flat today as she's moving out and stick to it.

Its so hard to know what to put in a single post. I once told my DD she had broken me to which she replied I don't care.

I think the most important advise that has come from PP's is to try and connect with her, not with the parenting side of managing the bad behaviour which has become habit over the last 8 years but actually who she is.

I used to find car journeys useful as they can talk without direct eye contact as you are focusing on driving. But maybe start by taking her out for lunch, don't mention the lack of job, don't mention the text but give her space to talk about her if she wants to otherwise just fill the silence with small talk, people watching etc.

Also make time for you, get out of the house away from her, make some time for you and DP (if you have one)

Good luck

From one fed up mum to another OP
Your DD sounds very like mine in every way although she is much younger.
Have you and your DH had a break away from it all recently? You say that your DD adores her younger siblings and they her. Could you ask her to look after them while you and DH get away for a bit?
The responsibility of looking after her siblings might give her a bit of a boost - especially since they have a great relationship as you say. Perhaps this could be the sort of career she could look into also?
Sometimes a chance to recharge your batteries and do something different might give you a sense of yourself again and a break from being squeezed emotionally from your DM and DD.
For what it's worth you sound like a lovely mum.

So Sorry OP,

It all sounds quite tough. I wonder if perhaps your daughter is now frustrated by her past and her performance at school and as a result she regressed back to that teenager.

Do you think that going back into some sort of education may help her?

If she is doing badly, then she also knows she is doing badly, so maybe telling her you KNOW she can do this, you know she will address the issues and will be a successful young woman is powerful. If you look sad and disappointed it will only make her feel worse.

Yes she is learning the hard way, and you can only stand and watch one failing after another, but that doesn't mean she is condemned to a life of failure. If you tell her, and mean it, that she can be a success and you love her and all her troubles, that one day she will be old and look back on her disasters with humour.

Don't give up on her, but don't allow her to walk all over you either.

Hobbies is the way forward for keeping you together even in the hardest times. Dog walks, lunch together, keep going but only if she is civil.

The moment the door slams, remind her that the other children will not live in stress created by her and nor will you.

Mindfulness, yoga and pilates and spending time looking after yourself is really important. Counselling would be good too. So you have the support you need to come through all of this.

You could also take your dd to mindfulness etc it would help her feel more balanced.

She sounds like a disappointed, frustrated young person and it is coming out as anger. Managing the anger, making a viable plan for the future and learning to manage disappointments are key for her to cope in life.

Some of what your daughter has said has bought back memories from when I was younger. I always thought that my parents were never happy with me just as I was or loved me for who I am and for me, it contributed to many years of depression. I can see now that they just wanted the best for me and were trying to coach me along, but all that I ever wanted was for them to say 'We love you no matter what', 'You make us happy/proud', 'We're here for you'. I wanted to feel loved as a person, not for the job I had, or because I was living up to their expectations. What your daughter probably doesn't realise (as I didn't until I had counselling) is that all of the supportive acts, money etc. is your way of showing her that you love her. You need to find a way that she understands to make that connection.