Aibu to think my dd is not causing friend to self harm

[inashizzle]

My 12 yr old is being accused of causing self harm. Her friend's mother called me to say that the school had been in contact advising her that her dd has been cutting her wrists. I am feeling so upset for her dd. She says it started after a fall out back in march with my dd. The two of them have an on/off friendship largely because when my dd's friend tries to sether her other friendships, dd stops talking to her. I listened to dds mother and gave support. I do feel though that there are deeper issues i.e. her dd has been left at home for many hours since year 5.

Thanks inashizzle, it does seem to be helping :)

she's flung a few kids into the wall

Bloody hell. What are the school doing about this?

I wouldn't want my DD around someone who behaved like this full stop.

The girl aggressively pushed my dd, when my dd pushed back the girl kicked her leg, hard. If anything the first girl was physical first. Both have detentions. I know my dd was not to blame and I know kids will be kids.

but your daughter started the whole chain of events, and I am guessing she told you her version of events, that from experience will be the one where her actions do not look so bad.

The other girl obviously has issues, and her actions in self harming should not be solely attributed to your daughter, that is massive to put on a child of 12, but it is possible some of your daughters actions are causing hurt and distress to the other girl, either deliberately or just through being thoughtless, which cause her to self harm, hopefully the mother will get her daughter the support she very obviously needs

Your daughter also shouldn’t have pushed her back. I might have missed it but no where do I see you say that, you just say she shouldn’t have jumped the queue. It’s tempting to do tit for tat but you should teach your daughter how to deal with these things another way just in the same way you should give her the tools to handle getting the blame for this girl cutting herself.

You didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it. The three 'C's.

Your dds behaviours may not be helping but it won't be the only reason.

My dd was self harming due in a good part to one girl who mocked her disability, told lies about her and tried to make sure she was left out and ignored in her form.

I imagine that she told her parents something similar to what you're hearing on the basis that when she was called out on this by other students, and she found herself in trouble, her parents' response was initially she hadn't done everything and it was my dd being mean to theirs.
When they were told there were reliable witnesses they went along the lines of "she's so misunderstood, she didn't mean it that way." The phrase "convicted by her own mouth" was very appropriate.

There was absolutely no chance that what she had said (as in the statement by several witnesses including the teacher) could have been misunderstood as anything, and actually what she ended up in trouble for, which was what had been witnesses and could be seen (as oppose to lots of nasty little things that were hard to prove) was the tip of the ice burg.

So do be aware that what you're hearing may well not be the truth.

She might have been asserting her place and yes on that note I agree and have told her it was wrong. The girl has been told by her own mother to keep her hands to herself. She is fierce strong. To get a big shove tbh I wouldn't come down hard on my dd if she pushed back in self defence. And to be kicked after, it's not ok in my book at all.

Whenever my daughter has socialised with others, even those outside school her friend has contacted these girls to befriend. If there has been a minor fallout between the pair, the girl will then slag my dd off and try isolate her!! If anything there has been bullying from her side! I've taken the stance that they will be mates before you know it. Just to enlighten a bit further the girl will buy lots of sweets to befriend others -sometimes fiver spent, will not give dd one, blatantly leaving her out. She's on report for checking teachers and silly behaviour that I have Maybe they're both to blame for minor disputes , however to blame is maybe not to get into trouble at home.

My dd was self harming due in a good part to one girl who mocked her disability, told lies about her and tried to make sure she was left out and ignored in her form.

I'm sorry to say this, but the other girl didn't cause your daughter to self-harm (although of course her behaviour was despicable and intolerable). Your daughter was self-harming because she didn't have the resources to protect herself. And she should have been removed from the situation. Ultimately, the people responsible for protecting children are their parents (and yes, of course all the other adults who stand in loco parentis at some point: teachers, school heads, etc.)

And I say this as someone who suffered bullying for years as a child and ended up with what was basically a nervous breakdown.

Your last posts , DistanceCall and Witchend have made a big impact on my perspective.

To be clearer, other girls had reported the self harm to school. School rang dd's friend's mother. The school had not contacted me about anything regarding this incident. I have never been contacted about behaviour problems or bullying ; pastoral care had called me on a completely different issue. The reason I started the post was to get various opinions so I could be very mindful of each child. I will be so mindful of if my dd could ever cause any upset to another person. On the other hand she can't be a doormat and scapegoat . The girl has watched '13 reasons why' and is friends with other girls that have self harmed. I do think this has to be a big get factor .She is an impressionable girl as well.

I'm struggling to grasp what her being left home alone has to do with her self-harming. Lots of children are left at home from year 5/6.

Because she is watching shows she is too young for and probably getting ideas from them. 13 reasons why is not for 12 yr olds.

You need to keep your DD completely away from this toxic 'friend'.

If the mother contacts you again, listen, then tell her you hope she has found appropriate mental health care for her DD, and put the phone down.

Do not start in on the hours left home, or the shows the daughter watches. Do not engage with this drama-loving women and her daughter.

The DD's inadequate social and emotional development are not your problems to fix.

Self harm takes off like wildfire in schools. It is contagious, and it is far worse since social media became such a big part of tweens' lives.
Your DD is not the problem here.

11, 12, 13 - very difficult years for girls socially. The issues of jealousy, fear of rejection and abandonment, insecurity/anxiety and the burgeoning herd instinct (based on evolution, where the weakest is cruelly isolated from the rest) make for a very fraught and occasionally dangerous social landscape.

Girls with mothers who live for drama have a much harder time than others in these years.

You need to model keeping yourself well apart from other people's problems here. Tell your DD as many times as needed that she must not get sucked into the drama.

I meant left home alone for many hours. Last summer for instance, 8 hrs in the day. The child must've been lonely.

I was a self harmer as a child and my mum reacted in the same way... trying to find someone or something she could directly blame.
I just had mental health issues which needed dealing with
Children who are well do not try and cut their wrists over arguments.
Your daughter is not responsible for her friends behaviour and any sort of pandering to that concept is deeply unhelpful to everyone involved.
I would not accept any implication that your daughter is in any way to blame for this or in any way needs to adapt her behaviour to 'help' her friend.... it will not help her friend.
Her friend needs proper professional help and guidance.

I met the mum today. She did not blame my dd today. She isn't a dramatic person or a liar. Completely different to any current issues she told me that a year 8 girl (unknown to my dd or her dd ) had followed her daughter home, punching her in the stomach because she'd refused to give her money. The school know of this character who has no friends, tried to befriend and it goes horribly wrong. Now I'm wandering how many kids are so badly troubled within a small secondary school?!

I told her to ring young minds and they would send literature to explain self harm for her as a parent and for her child. She said no, she'd brought the book Queen Bees and Wanabees. I was very surprised she didn't take my advice on professional organisation .I'll be ordering the book for my child though!
Does anybody think that increased numbers of self harm can be copycat incidents? With there being a spate within year 7 and 8 I wonder how linked it could be?

Yes there is social contagion. It is something schools are very aware of and if they are not, they should be.

Attention seeking and a taste for drama can be part of it. Hence the contagion.

Judging from your conversation with the mother she is very much into drama. That book is very instructive on many fronts in a general way, but it absolutely would not be the one I would choose if it were my daughter self harming. This woman seems determined to cast blame and to refuse to do the smart, private, quiet thing and get help for her DD. So I disagree that she is not a person who loves drama.

You don't have to have a flamboyant or loud personality to be a drama lover.

You just have to be very invested in an explanation for a daughter's problems that involves victimisation by other people.

Young Minds was a good suggestion. I am surprised the school hasn't referred her to her GP, or CAMHS.

I don't believe for one second your dd is to blame..I've had friends who try to monopolize my time and get jealous etc. When with others and it's awful, she doesn't right to cut her off.. I'd be very angry with this other mother if I'm honest, calling you and blaming your child for her owns mental heth. This mother needs to look closer to home to help her dd not blame everyone else

I think she really believes her daughter( who tells her mum she's been really good at school, then mum gets phonecall to say the girl is on report). I asked on her first phone call if the school suggested counselling ; she said they'd said no due to it being the first time ! My dd has said she never wants to get involved with that friend again. In her own words, 'because she's too aggressive and gets involved in drama'. Unfortunately my dd has never fit in to the really hardworking , sensible girl group ( because she's not ).She's finding it hard that there is a large section of bitchy girls in year 7. Luckily she has a sports hobby out of school, that helps a lot. Think it's going to be a long 5 years