I am livid with DH and men in general. AIBU?

[whatwhenwhy]

This morning my husband has gone to work, but I'm still feeling livid. AIBU?

I know that sometimes when he's away on business he might watch soft porn as a "mechanical aid" or "to speed things up" as he puts it I have seen the kind of thing he might watch and it's basically women on women group sex. He assured me he never watches anything with any form of bondage or violence and I have no cause to think otherwise. I have sometimes watched the female group sex videos with him and find it all fake and a bit of a joke to be honest, but each to their own.

Anyway, he came back from a business trip on Friday night. On Saturday morning, he was taking my daughter (10) somewhere. She went on his phone and saw an indecent image. I am not entirely clear what the image was. DH grabbed the phone from her. DD apparently had said, "Im going to tell mummy - ew" or words to that effect. DH obviously felt terrible and told her it was an advert that had randomly popped up. DD believes this because she has no concept of porn sites. DH told me what has happened when he got home - he was highly embarrassed. I asked him for the name of the site and when you google it, the homepage is various images including a woman about to give head and other flashing images inc women exposing their vaginas. I'm mortified that my daughter has even had a second's glimpse of this kind of thing.

Sorry if this is long, but I was very upset and we then had a conversation about the ethics of porn in general and how would he feel if his daughter ended up in the sex industry. In the course if this, DH revealed that "every stag do (except his) ends up in a strip club". This is historical because we're now in our 40s and I think there's only been a couple of weddings in the last ten years, but he's been on probably about 20 stag dos over the years and is "not sure" if the groom had a private dance or other extras. I know all these wives and also know that if they had known their DH had had a private dance before their wedding, they would have called the whole thing off. I told DH he had colluded with deceiving these friends of mine on their wedding day and it makes me feel sick. Plus, he never felt the need to tell me he had been in these clubs at the time or find out how I felt about them. Some have been in stags in Eastern Europe.

I am feeling lied to, even though this is all in the past and livid on behalf of some friends. Sorry, I know the phone thing and the historical stag strip club parties are two separate issues, but AIBU to feel absolutely livid? For context, we have been together 20 years, he is generally a kind and considerate husband and father. Our sex life has always been good. We have our "roles" in that I've been at home with the kids and he's the "provider" as such, but it works that way for us and we have few tensions. We have 3 DC. AIBU and over-reacting? Sorry this is so long.

Of course it's infidelity.

If his colleague waved her vulva at your DH you'd know he was cheating but because this woman had to be financially coerced it's not?

It's a real woman there he's getting off to- not some computer generated robot fanny. A real human female.

When strip clubs for women cease to be outnumbered by those for men by about 1 million to one, I might agree that women see men as commodities. The fact that women's clubs barely exist tells you that they don't.

To feel angry with the whole lot of them is over the top

Yes, OP listen to the man as he tells how you should feel. Also #namalt or something too right.

You have every right to be disgusted. I don't see why you would have had this discussion twenty years ago as pp have suggested...as you've only just been told now though.

YANBU about the phone! That is absolutely appalling, he has exposed your 10-year-old daughter to pornography and I bet it will be you that has to explain these images to your poor daughter! I would be disgusted if it were my DH! Particularly that he was careless enough to leave it on his phone, then let your dd use his phone! Those images must have been confusing and disturbing to your dd! I might consider saying that a virus had hacked your DH's phone and that was why there were rude/ awful pictures on it (if only to spare the poor girl the thought that her father was using pornography).

As for the stag do's, it is awful but unfortunately not uncommon for stag parties to end up at a strip/ lap-dancing club. But then my DH has never tried to hide that fact from me. Unfortunately for the stag do's abroad, particularly in the likes of Amsterdam and Hamburg, many stag do's finish up in the red light district (which is the attraction of having it abroad apparently!).

My DH has thankfully never been to a stag do abroad and wouldn't go for this reason. He has, however, had many colleagues who have been on stags abroad, which is how the red-light district came up. My friend's partners have admitted to similar prior to meeting them. I personally would prefer a reputable lap dancing club to a red light district. However, I hate the objectification of woman and would prefer neither! But then my DH has been told that if I find him using pornography then that is the end of our relationship. I actually find using porn, more of a betrayal than a lap dance or at least equally as bad. But I guess we all have different boundaries.

Why on earth did he bring up strip clubs when talking about your child seeing porn? Would he take his dd to a strip club? Obviously not!
I suspect in some circles it is common for a stag night, but there are many men who don’t do that for their stag (eg my dh) Or who have chosen to stay outside while others have dances (again something my dh has done) it is not part of being a man that you can’t resist a strip club.
I suspect he is being defensive because he is feeling rightly guilty about your dd. Are you going to talk to her about it?

Have you seen the way women paw at those men - they grope with abandon, and often enjoy trying to make the stripper blush. Guys more often try to emabarass each other, not the stripper. And they can’t grope away at their chests, they way the women do.

You’re completely delusional if you think women don’t take advantage of male strippers. They do. But again, those men can do what they chose with their bodies.

You’re double standards are disgusting. Your reaction to your husband and his mates for going to a club is out of proportion. Calm down and get over it.

Focus on the real issue - the dishonesty and leaving stuff for your daughter to see.

Ah, so it's OK for women to behave how they like with male strippers but it won't be when the numbers balance out? Right...

Here we are, the “some women do it too” crew

No its infidelity. But he obviously needs to be more circumspect. And if a guy tells you he doesn't look at porn, he's probably lying.

I'm disgusted that DH, who is generally on the moral high ground about all sorts of issues, has apparently avoided giving any depth of thought as to the potential circumstances of the women involved in poem.

But you've known about him watching porn for years and you've watched it with him too. How long have you been disgusted about it? It reads as if you've only just found out about the porn use as well as the stag do goings on (which is a bit of naivety on your part i'm afraid OP) but that isn't the case ...

I think you should concentrate on the phone/DD thing. I'd be bloody livid about that!

not infidelity I meant.

Ah ok. So women looking at and groping naked men is fine, because it's a joke, but not the other way around.

Thought that might be the case.

So your DD was on his browser or found the photo in his files? You sure it was from a website? I’d be pretty angry if my child saw this stuff regardless.

Your husband sounds like he’s a bit of a one on the side. I couldn’t be dealing with it

Some women do 🤷‍♀️ it's fact. Not on the same scale as men but OP made comments which have been corrected.

My Dad has commented on the amount of women that seem to think it's ok to stick their hand up or lift a kilt. I've witnessed it several times myself. If a man did this it would rightfully be sexual assault. I just don't understand the attitude that men are always worse than women when either sex can do things that are pretty grim.

What makes me sick is that these men are not some rowdy tossers in their 20s. They are all educated, well-mannered and successful men with beautiful wives and children that they should be proud of

No, they're just entitled arsehole tossers who happen to now be in their 40s. The rowdiness may have lessened, but clearly not the misogyny.

If every stag do your H goes on with his friendship group ends up in a strip club, then your H is a sleaze, and so are his friends. Birds of a feather and all that.

But, 'city trader'? And you are surprised by this?

I'm loving all teh, " My DH would never ever not never ook at porn or go to a lap club but all his friends do" brigade.

He goes. He just doesn't tell you because he knows you'd give him hell...

My DH knows loads of men who would never ever not never go to one , too ;)

You’re completely delusional if you think women don’t take advantage of male strippers. They do. But again, those men can do what they chose with their bodies.

Who are all these women you know going to strip clubs?

I literally don't know any.

I come from an area well know for the stripping industry and can't remember every even seeing one that featured men. Must be missing a trick with all these women gagging to grope a man in silver hotpants.

@scot72 why isn't it infidelity?

What's the difference between having a drink with a woman in a bar going upstairs and getting a private dance off her.

And paying for the same thing?

Is it because you know the woman doesn't actually want it in the second scenario?

The man the person in the relationship is still getting his rocks off on a another woman.

My DH knows loads of men who would never ever not never go to one , too ;)

You DH sounds like a class act.

He's honest is all thefuck. I don't mind you see so he can be.

Clearly unlike so many husbands.

These days his friends range from lawyers, bankers, political figures, actors - all very successful in their fields. They are the kind of men who are friends of mine too and I've never regarded then as sleazy.

You might want to ask yourself what this tells you about your own pre-conceived ideas regarding the "type" of person who visits strip clubs........

Anyhoo, in the nicest possible way you have a lot bigger things to worry about than the morality of strip clubs and the people who frequent them, for starters the fact you've managed to go FIFTEEN YEARS without e er having conversations about this kind of stuff or knowing what your DH gets up to on stag doos and nights out......

You have a marital communication problem, not a strip club or porn problem.

I am questioning everything now and I really don't know why I didn't before. This is a man who I would have trusted with my life. I have never suspected him if an affair. He has never made lead comments about women in my presence and he's very respectful. As far as the porn thing goes, he says he would never watch any form of violence or coercion as that's not his thing at all. His "thing" is the female orgy type stuff, though he admits there is obviously all sorts of stuff on the site. He claims he uses it as a "mechanical aid" very occasionally to speed things up, but he would never do it in the house if I'm home. Apparently he doesn't put the sound on, it's just images.

Im remembering now, a while back there was a random photo of a woman's behind on his phone - not pornographic at all, just a woman in an office-type dress. Apparently it was Carol Vorderman! He had gone to No 10 with another business associate to meet the then PM David Cameron and she was also there. While they were waiting, DH took a picture of her bum because she was apparently voted "rear of the year". These are men in their mid- 40s - supposed to be at a business event. At the time I didn't make much of this, but now I'm just seeing the whole mentality as depressing and a let-down in general.

@thefuckiswrongwithyou

Here are two quotes from an article about the male stripper industry in the UK.

"There's certainly a healthy appetite for male nudity, as I discover one night at the Adonis Cabaret in London's Old Street, where the women, mostly hen groups, turn wild at the sight of gyrating muscles slick with baby oil, at policeman costumes, firemen costumes, even gorilla costumes. Chants of "get 'em off, get 'em off" echo around the room in frenzied tones. One woman even flashes her breasts."

"The girls can definitely get rowdy, too. On one occasion, Bari says, audience hysteria grew to such a level that the men had to hide in the bathroom as women outside detailed the things they wanted to do to them, before they escaped out of the bathroom window to a getaway bus."

Men might be stronger that women in general, so not 'vulnerable' and they might enjoy the objectification and attention, but that doesn't mean behaving like an animal is acceptable. These women behave the same, if not worse, as men attending strip clubs. So acting like men are disgusting for going to a strip club is just a stupid view to hold unless you also think the same about women.

@lupercalia as I explained my DH works with trafficked women amongst others, so no he doesn't. He knows I have no issue with what he chooses to do, when he was first in this line of work he told me it made him feel sick that he's ever been in a strip club or watched porn and not thought about the potential for those women to have been trafficked or abused. When he was at his school friend's stag, he text me and said he was thinking of leaving, I suggested he stay but not get involved as he rarely sees that group anymore and he said just the way the night was going and some of the comments made him feel uncomfortable. So he came home, next time we saw that particular 'friend' he was mocking my DH for not wanting to go to the strip club. There are men who lie, but not all do.

In the course if this, DH revealed that "every stag do (except his) ends up in a strip club".

Either your DH is a liar, or he hangs about with a bunch of sleazeballs. Not saying they don't happen, but I've been to plenty of stag do's, and no strip clubs.

DH will not confirm that her DH didn't have a private dance - so I take this as a "yes he did." I can just tell. I feel really angry with the whole lot of them. They have colluded in degrading my friend on the biggest day of her life - "for a laugh". It's deception, entitlement and degrading.

I would be very careful here. You do not know for sure what happened, careful who you accuse of what.

And he's a bloody idiot for letting your daughter see whatever it was on his phone. Hopefully he has learnt from that at least.

YADNBU about your DD seeing that image, that’s unforgivable.

To be honest I’m a bit ugh about the rest of it. I couldn’t respect a man that went to strip clubs and watched porn because to me it’s not harmless, it’s the objectification of women which doesn’t sit well with me. It speaks of a deeper lack of respect for women.

DP hasn’t been to a strip club, he doesn’t like the idea, ditto for porn. But I don’t know if he’s the norm or not.