To think this is a puppy farm ?

[sleeplesswonderer]

I have been looking for a puppy for my mum today she doesn't go online (she hasn't worked it out yet ) so I said I would have a look around for her.
I found this person on pets 4 homes who had some puppies available in the breed my mum would like and has had before.
The details said the puppies were 14 weeks old. I messaged the seller to ask questions and said can I just check they have had all their injections. As far as I can tell the first ones should be done around 8-10 weeks and then 12 weeks ish.
She said they hadn't and she didn't get them done because when people take the dogs for their second injections they might be a different brand . I thought fair enough but surely by 14 weeks she should have had them fully vaccinated anyway.
She got very snotty about this and said she has been a breeder for 10 years.
The thing is the puppies won't have been socialised because they won't have been able to leave the house. They are surely open to diseases as-well. I can understand when they are 8 weeks the breeder leaving the new owners to get the injections but to me this is just a way for her to save money.
On further digging she is also selling a litter of completely different breed puppies ! Which is also a massive red flag.
I just hate things like this ! Her profile on pets 4 homes doesn't give anything away apart from the area she lives and that she doesn't have a breeders licence so I don't think there is any way of reporting this.
I know I will be told I'm being unreasonable just ignore it non of my business etc but it's just so sad for the puppies

Not an attack. Just fact. There's little to report. Puppy farming is sadly not illegal. You can report regarding tax evasion but it would take serious neglect and/or abuse to get someone like the RSPCA involved.

Fluffy why would you suggest that?

Yeah that's what I have been doing fluffy but it seems it has unfortunately been the wrong way to go about it. A chorkie isn't a pedigree ad far as I know it is a cross between two breeds

Have the pups had a quick vet check (no the same as being health tested before a breeder tries to spin you that one)? Have they got microchips?

I don't get why they still have the full litter (looking for homes???) at 14 weeks?
That to me would be a red flag. Having one family back out is fair enough, but any decent breeder will find owners before they even put the adults together to mate. Of course oops litters happen, but many have people that will rush to get a pup regardless. I'm still on a waiting list for my puppy from a specific breeder that does everything how I want, it's going to be another 2 years at least as the last litter was small so I missed out and that was the last litter from that bitch so have to wait for a daughter from a previous litter to be the right age.

Yes it's fact wolfie but until today having never visited pets 4 homes in my life I didn't know this fact ! So now I do and I have listened and understood

Fingers crossed for your new addition soon rafikils. Yes they are microchipped apparently

Fluffy why would you suggest that?

Because it seems MN posters think only crossbreed puppies are advertised on pets4homes. All puppy breeds are advertised.

Not all are puppy farmers - cross breeds or pedigree.

You will hardly find such a cross that doesn't come from a puppy farm. Crossbreeds are unreliable; you may wish for X's looks and Y's temperament and get it inverted.
Are you sure your mother wouldn't be happy with a purebred dog from one of those breeds? You will have much better luck finding a good breeder of either Chihuahuas (maybe a long haired one!) or Yorkies. A good breeder will also match you to a puppy so you get the best fit in terms of temperament.

Why don't you have a look at the parent club of these breeds where you are? Ask them for recomendations of breeders near you.

Also, check out the results of some dog shows. It doesn't matter if the kennel doesn't win it all (but if it consistently places last, beware!).

Finally, visit the OFA website and check a list of health screenings each breed should have.

Oh! Once you narrow down some breeders, make sure they deal with your mother directly. If I were a breeder, I would refuse to sell my pup to a third party I don't know.

No decent breeders advertise on pets4homes. Cross breed or pedigree.

Thank you desperate I am going to see her tomorrow with the suggestion of a yorkie instead. My mum will be dealing with the breeder just unfortunately not by email . One day I will get her on the tinterweb although after today I am glad she isn't. She is not elderly btw just very computer averse

“Because it seems MN posters think only crossbreed puppies are advertised on pets4homes. All puppy breeds are advertised.”

Yes and there’s not a decent breeder among them... so I’m not really sure what your point is about pets4homes?

OP, finding a good breeder is hard going - especially given you’re looking for a cross, your best bet will be a club... at least then you’ll have half a chance of finding someone who is doing it with healthy dogs.

Re the vaccinations, by itself it’s not always a massive red flag, some breeders don’t vaccinate puppies, it’s not about extra money it’s that you’re giving them a whole lot of extra vaccines when they’re so little and because you’re having to start again it extends the time before they can properly socialise.

Definitely start with the breed club or society. There is likely to be breed specific rescues too. Find out what health tests the parents should have before breeding. Also worth getting to a show and meeting some breeders and owners.

Yes and there’s not a decent breeder among them... so I’m not really sure what your point is about pets4homes?

The OP mentioned pets4homes.... Hence the posts about breeders who breed crossbreeds advertise on pets4homes therefore only puppy farmers advertise on pets4homes 🙄

What about a person with a KC reg GSD - or whatever breed - bitch who wants the bitch to have a litter (with a KC reg stud dog) before being spayed. They would appear on the KC breeders page but will also advertise on other social network pages. Breeders like their puppies to go before 10 weeks old. The window for adequate socialisation closes at 16 weeks.

If you want to trawl through the pets4homes ads you will find lots of puppy farmers and lots who are not puppy farmers. Its up to the person buying to avoid the scumbag puppy farmers. They are easily spotted if people take their time and do their research.

Thanks for all the advice I have so far reported the advert to pets 4 homes. It sounds like pets 4 homes are not very good from what I have heard on here so them taking action is probably unlikely.
I'm just having a cuppa and then off to bed.
I'm sat here wondering if it has become somewhat socially unacceptable to want a specific puppy rather than a rescue these days ? Like I said both mine are rescues but I have never really thought of the feelings people have towards this. Is it a general please don't buy a puppy from anywhere always rescue ? Or is it just based on the fact that that puppies should only be bought from say a top breeder. How do people feel about a family pet having a litter ? Would you view them with suspicion if they listed their puppies for sale online ? I only ask this because a friend of mine had some puppies a few months back (or I should say her dog did) she obviously put the pictures on Facebook and people were commenting. I know she sold all the puppies apart from one obviously after having health checks etc.
It is a really interesting topic when I think about it.
When I see my mum tomorrow I will voice to her what has been said.
Thanks again

“The OP mentioned pets4homes.... Hence the posts about breeders who breed crossbreeds advertise on pets4homes therefore only puppy farmers advertise on pets4homes”

No, she mentioned pets4homes and a crossbreed...

There are no good breeders using pets4homes, you can spend as long as you want trawling through it, they don’t use it.

“How do people feel about a family pet having a litter ?”

It’s not ideal tbh, most people don’t know enough about things like conformation, inbreeding coefficients and recurring health or behavioural issues in lines... they also don’t really know enough about breeding or how to raise a litter.

Most people will luck out with it, and have a fairly ok litter of puppies and they all end up healthy enough and the bitch doesn’t have any major health complications... but some won’t.

If you (that’s a generic you btw) want to breed, I think you should be doing it to the best possible standard, not just ok...

Pets4homes is an advertising site. They don't personally sell puppies. People who want to sell their puppies advertise thru them. Not all are puppy farmers.

Take Elsie down the road. Her yorkie has accidentally become pregnant by a chuiuhaha (mainly because Elsie couldn't see the point in getting her girlie spayed). Elsie doesn't want to keep a litter of puppies. She needs to advertise them so they go before 10 weeks old. So she advertises them on a well known puppy advertising page.... aka pets4homes. She is not a puppy farmer.

People need to know how to identify puppy farms and report them! They are the fucking pits! But not all breeders who advertise on pets4homes are puppy farmers... There are every breed you could imagine advertised on there. Not just cross breeds ( for the mumsnetters who think only cross breeds are advertised by their breeders).

Just wanted to say- I got my cat from pets 4 homes, when she was a few months old, so still a little kitten. Her owner wanted to try rehoming her herself before she was forced to give her to a rescue. So pets 4 homes was a middle ground, saved her going through the trauma of the rescue process. Not all backyard breeders

Elsie down the road isn’t a puppy farmer, but she’s also not a decent breeder, she’s someone who isn’t that bothered about the health of her own dog because she’s decided not to get her spayed even though it puts her at risk of pyometra and has decided not to let her go through pregnancy and birth rather than take her to the vets and get a mismate injection.

She’s also someone who clearly isn’t the most attentive of owners or her in heat bitch would have been nowhere near an entire chihuahua... a chihuahua that she has no idea of it’s health or temperament...

And an owner that decided that selling them was a better idea than getting a rescue to help vet owners where they could have been rehomed straight from her house to good owners rather than whoever turned up with some cash.

Just to clear up a quick vaccine question here. Vanguard 7 cannot be used with Nobivac DHPPI. So if the pups had one of those makes for the 1st jab then they need the same for 2nd. For the yearly booster its then fine to switch to whatever make your vets uses. If your vet doesn't stock the vaccine the pup was injected with for the 1st then the puppy course needs to be started again which means the pup will take longer to be allowed out and socialised.

Tabula I think I love you just a little bit!
I have a giant breed. She can't be spayed until she's fully grown for health reasons. So I make absolutely bloody sure she's nowhere near entire males when in season.
I won't breed because I don't know enough. It's a complicated thing and unless your dog is a superb and exceptionally healthy specimen and you really know what you're doing then you shouldn't.
OP I bought a pedigree. I have nothing against people wanting a certain dog. Choose a pedigree. Learn about the breed and go through the breed club to find a good breeder.
Don't pick a cross breed because it's cute. You don't know what you will get and it wint come from a good breeder.

Jesus Christ, it's no wonder the country is in su h a state with badly bred mongrels everywhere, selling for ridiculous prices.

ANYONE who willingly breeds mongrels /crossbreeds is a puppy farmer. They are quite literally farming puppies for money. They have no other purpose than to sell.

ANYONE who advertises puppies online, on sites like Pets4Homes, Gumtree, Preloved and Facebook are bad "breeders" and I use the term very lightly. Whether the dogs are pedigree or not, they are STILL bad breeders.

NO good breeder has to advertise their puppies. This is a massive, HUGE red flag.

A yorkie/chi Cross (I refuse to call it a ridiculous name because that's completely made up in order to sell mongrels to stupid people) will not have health tested parents, will not be predictable and will face the prospect of having both health and behavioural problems in the future with a "breeder" you cannot return the puppy to.

How people even think of buying puppies with no health tested parents, no history, no endorsements and no vaccinations is absolutely beyond me.

Anyone who is intentionally breeding such crosses is doing it for the financial reward and not the health/welfare of the animals involved. Breeding puppies is expensive and, if done correctly, costly, with little financial gain. This should make you question what corners these people are cutting in order to get their financial benefit from it.

Who ends up suffering? The dog and the new owners. I see it almost daily where someone had taken a poorly bred puppy on in good faith only to have to deal with a lifetime of health problems.

With this cross breed you'll be looking at things like:
Eye problems - chihuahuas have prominent eyes which makes them more susceptible to corneal ulcers, they also are known for lens luxation and glaucoma. Yorkie predispositions for eyes include KCS (dry eye), distichiasis, cataracts and PRA (progressive retinal atrophy - early blindness basically)

Skeletal problems - both breeds are predisposed to elbow luxation and patella luxation.

Both breeds are aldo predisposed to hydrocephalus, various heart problems and tracheal collapse.

There are tests that can be done to rule some of these conditions out (e.g. DNA testing for PRA), and other things, looking back through generations can help to see if there's anything being passed along the lines.

But only decent breeders will do these tests and a decent breeder wouldn't allow their health tested (very different to a health check from a vet) dogs produce cross breeds.

Obviously any dog comes with a risk healthwise, but steps can be made by breeders to reduce these. If your mum does go for such cross breed, or any dog in fact, make sure she takes out good insurance policy.

Erm hang on wolfie where did I say I was looking for a chorkie because they are cute ? I explains the reasons for it and it wasn't anything to do with cuteness.

Spot on another yes whatever you do make sure you’ve got insurance.

I think the problem is that mongrels with a fancy name are fashionable at the moment, so there are a lot of people breeding ( particularly poodle crosses) hoping to make a quick buck.
Rescue centres do get a wide choice of pedigrees, known crosses, unknown mixes, puppies and adults, so keep an eye out.
The other issue is there's no guarantee of which genes will be dominant in a cross breed, so the chances of your mother replicating her childhood pet are slim.
A man at our local agricultural show had two cute puppies. I asked the breed and he said they were chalkies. One looked like a border terrier cross and the other some sort of smooth haired black and tan terrier type. They were from the same litter, looked completely different and neither looked like a Yorkie or a chihuahua, to be honest.
Our local rescue has had litters of JRT crosses, lurchers, SBT crosses, poodle crosses, collie crosses and shitzhu crosses in the last 6 months or so. Not exactly what you are looking for, but the chances of having the exact cross ( or similar cross) coming in at some point are good.
Or just take your Mum to look at the dogs at a few rescues, she might fall for the personality of a completely different cute puppies. There are literally thousands to choose from, all in need of a good home, and coming from someone who will hopefully give you an honest summary of behaviour, suitability for your Mum, feeding requirements, walking requirements etc.
They will also be vaccinated, neutered and chipped.