To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

[jnfrrss]

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

Smeaton your car insurance is high - have you been on any comparison sites?

@crunchymint

The choice of what to spend money on comes down to debt accrued when critically ill and then Made redundant shortly after - but we need to suck it up and pay it off.

We need to pay that off before we can consider having children.

That is no different from someone relying on UC And not being able to afford a child.

The initial OP wasn't talking about someone who has already got a child and then the government moving the goal posts or their personal circumstance changing (which the government fucks up and leaves people destitute) it was about someone having an abortion because they can't afford a child in their current circumstances.

Smeaton
Any way your landlord can chase your ex for her share of the debts?

Twounder1 the idea of people living it up on benefits probably comes from massive families who are getting lots of cash and more cash for every child they have.
There was also a poster on here saying she was on UC with a one year old. She had been offered 20 hours per week in a MW job but less childcare would be earning £3.56 or £75 per week. Was it worth it??

I think anyone can be irresponsible, though.
And I have known a few, albeit a good few years ago, that can "afford" sky TV, that can "afford" holidays now and then. Have a couple of games consoles.

Usually, they were on the cheapest sky package and still constantly in arrears.
They had really bad debt with a crap high interest lender, to pay for said holiday, and spent 3-4 years paying off a £500 weekend in the sun. They were persistently in arrears with absolutely everything with never more than a fiver in the gas meter... it ain't a way I'd want to live. Always robbing peter to pay Paul, then not even paying Paul and having to give good old wonga a call. Washing machines fucked? Welp. Get one off brighthouse. Then it becomes tempting to also get a play station or similar so your kids can have something to do in the shitty area you live in where it's not safe for them to play out... then you're quickly in arrears with brighthouse anyway.

It's a spiral. And it gets to the point where the bills you pay are the ones most likely to take you to court, while the other bills slide on for a month or three. So while on the outside it may look like "she doesn't even work but she managed to take her kids to Spain last year and they've all got an Xbox!"

If you dig a bit deeper often it's not a life you'd want to live... obviously, there are responsible people too, I just wanted to give a bit of insight to those who are clearly "living it up".
I grew up in some pretty poor areas as a kid/teen and I'm facing being a benefit claimant now (despite never being so until literally a few weeks ago), I have to say a life on benefits isn't one I'd want. I'm already looking for ways to get off them, despite having a very young baby and no claim even approved yet.

What a nightmare.
However given she is still on the tenancy. The landlord could chase her if they wanted to. Actually they could chase her for all the debt not just half of it.

I assume you have removed her from the council tax?

I'd bet they've rules that they won't give her another tenancy until you are in credit and she is off the account too.

Excellent post by Viperama

There needs to be a serious campaign to fix some of the worst aspects of Universal Credit. I am beyond shocked at some of the 'I'm alright jack' attitudes on here and elsewhere. This is about to be rolled out to 7 MILLION people in the country. Anyone on any tax credit / housing ben working or not,it's coming for you. It has already put so many people into debt and poverty.

We have a situation where -

Foodbanks in areas where UC have been rolled out for 12 months or more are 4 TIMES as busy!! UC credit staff are actually told to tell people to go to foodbanks if they say themselves or their children are starving (??!!)

Housing Associations are saying that 3 TIMES more of their tenants on UC are in rent arrears, compared to tenants still on old system

Deductions for overpayments/ arrears/ court fines are being applied to people's claims at a MASSIVELY INFLATED rate than were taken on the old system. I am having nearly £200 a month taken before I even see my payment for debts I was previously paying back at £15 a month. I cannot afford this as already on a low wage, high rent, and paying back the 'advance' loan you take out to cover the 5 week wait as well. This has forced me into something I never should have had to enter. Just to survive. These deductions need to be set at a much lower rate. It's criminal to take hundreds a month from someone already struggling when the option to pay back over a longer period of time would be easily possible.

Those needing childcare are having to pay their fees upfront in the hope that UC will refund the 85%. Which many times is not happening, and people are having to leave their jobs. This is NOT 'helping people into work' as UC claim, it is actually stopping work for many. If UC is to help people into work, then a system of making people pay childcare upfront when of course in the 5 week wait or starting a new job is not viable. Save the Children have a campaign about this running just now it is on the childcare issues section of mumsnet.

Many people are worse of under UC than the old system anyway, even before deductions are taken. Especially working single parents.Also I don't know how anybody can sit back and condone the CUTS TO DISABLED PEOPLE'S SUPPORT, INCLUDING CUTS TO MONEY FOR DISABLED CHILDREN. disabled people are losing up to £200 a month. This is built into UC, not a mistake or oversight.

Sanctions which leave people unable to even survive. All money is taken. This is against Human Rights. IF someone qualifies for hardship payments of £40 a week to survive on they need to pay it back once the sanction ends, thereby increasing the length of the sanction massively. In fact the whole UC system is designed to put people into debt. Mhari Black MSP says the government are acting as 'pious loan sharks' and I think that is a very good description. It actually costs more to administer sanctions than the money saved from them - it's purely ideology.

I think we need to accept that UC is not going to be scrapped. It's cost billions to implement and is not saving anywhere near as much as it's cost. But they won't scrap it now. I think the pressure needs to be piled on the government to FIX THE WORST ASPECTS OF UC AND MAKE IT FIT FOR PURPOSE. Just like when charities campaigned against the premium rate phone number claimants had to call UC on, and it was changed. I think things can be changed, but people need to wake up and start taking action.

My debts are for council tax btw. Previously taken at £15 a month, now taken at nearly £200. And nearly £60 a month for the advance repayment for the 5 week wait. Add that to being a single working parent £120 a month worse off under UC anyway, and I am not coping.

Housing associations have got no excuse because they knew this was coming. (after all certain members of the public are saying the same about tenants)

there was even a trial.

www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2015/may/19/social-landlords-prepare-universal-credit

From a review from a HA employee Taken from glass door

"OneSanctuary SAP is the name of a multi-million pound software system brought in by Sanctuary in 2016, designed for use by all areas of the business. It has been an unmitigated failure, and is a huge drawback of working for this company.
The issues caused by SAP are staggering and difficult to keep track of. Because SHA tried to implement SAP in a cost effective manner, they ended up vastly under-investing in critical elements. There is no tailoring of the generically presented system ('vanilla SAP'), which is an issue as social housing is a unique environment from a service delivery and CRM perspective, whereas vanilla SAP is more geared towards providing a solution for manufacturing industries. Thus, the system uses corporate nonsensical buzzwords and methods of handling accounts which absolutely do not reflect industry practice.
Here are just some examples of the more specific issues faced by staff:
No rent statements have been issued since it was implemented in August 2016, and if a resident insists on a rent statement it has to be prepared manually in a spreadsheet.
The rent and calculations for accounts are hard to use, and often completely wrong. Mostly because the system was never designed to understand housing benefit payments, and this has a very convoluted workaround which a computer cannot make sense of.
SAP cannot interface with Local Authorities Housing benefit systems so payments are missed, lost or misattributed.
Direct debits do not work reliably, and for a long time following the implementation did not work at all. Front line staff are now preferring standing order.
The front end system of SAP requires far more testing and money spent on it. Each customer account is a total mess of information, with no discernible way to separate notes left between differing departments, with information left by staff often going into the wrong account entirely. This needs looking at as from a compliance (DPA) point of view the breaches are serious.
From a usability point of view, the view of a customers account within SAP CIC does not display appropriate information to the user (as stated before this is likely because the system was never designed to be used by a HA) and the user often has to go trawling around back end systems to find obviously relevant data (e.g tenancy start date, account balance, property type etc). This is a seemingly minor but considerable waste of resources"

Now throw UC into the mix as well

Because of this system many tenants have been getting letters saying they are in arrears when they are NOT Including pensioners in their 70s on full HB who are nothing to do with UC!!!!!!

sosickandtired - I agree with most of what you are saying but not ... "If UC is to help people into work, then a system of making people pay childcare upfront when of course in the 5 week wait or starting a new job is not viable. "
Because when you start a new job, your employer won't give you any pay upfront. So you will still have to pay to live and no money to do so. I recently was in exactly this situation... I was on old fashioned jobseekers due to redundancy. I started work on the first of the month and everything stopped ... as officially I was working. Only problem would not get paid for an other 4 weeks... no financial advance either. It's all crap, whichever side of the UC divide you are.

@smeaton and Bolow..... actually I'm Bashing and I'm the one that asked about things being so bad that people in their children have to eat dog food in Great Britain. The one component I am not hearing about is where are the people on public assistance's people? Their extended families or their kin (folk)? I know in my greatest times of need, not that I've ever been desperately poor three dogs, my family has come to the rescue and help shelter me or feed me or even lend me money. Also don't any of these people have a church family or some semblance spiritual family? None of us were generated Cabbage Patch we all come from somewhere and someones what about the human factor?

Also, what is a council tax and is it mandatory for people that don't have homes? Can you elaborate on what a council taxes and what a council is? Please forgive my ignorance I'm just not familiar with these terms we probably have something analogous to that in America but I don't see it from your description thank you for your elucidation

Sinuhe, I wasn't meaning waiting for wages, which yeah have always been that way. People can now after pressure was put on the govt,get a repayable advance whilst you wait. I was meaning paying for childcare.

My weekly childcare last year was more than my rent (and I'm in private let so high) - exactly how are people supposed to magic up the money to pay for the first month's childcare upfront?? Especially people on a low income already from periods of unemployment or ON the 5-week-wait, having been only given an advance to cover basic living costs??

Also childcare costs must be first paid for by the claimant and then receipts given in the exact monthly assessment period,and also not be more than wages (common for multiple Children or under 5's as Save the Children are campaigning on) . Or UC will likely not pay back the costs - this is fact. People are stuck in debts to childcare providers, and to uc itself. Some struggling to sustain work due to no money for childcare costs when working on NMW, or indeed it's untenable to begin work in the first place, which is what the govt say they want people to do. Doesn't seem to make sense??

Under the previous system the claimant reported costs and sheets of evidence of childcare and payment was received in a couple weeks.

I know which system helped the claimant undertake and sustain work more helpfully and seamlessly??

UC is a myriad of debt for already squeezed people and families. The advance for the wait is off each month for a year, then the higher applications for debt recovery for things like council tax, rent arrears etc which many have taken off the payment. Adding more debt can't be a good thing, but perhaps one thing uc could offer is a month advance for childcare upon evidence of it. uc paid in arrears but the childcare technically does get paid from the start date of work, just not upfront.

You can then run the risk of getting sanctioned for not having been able to afford childcare in order to get to work. Or even for the first time - sanctions to already working people for not earning enough. Could be dropping or not taking on more hours due to the actual FACT of not having enough savings to pay for childcare upfront to work..

It's not a good system at all.

I understand that's always been the same for the old jsa claimants as regarding wages. but for childcare only not wages, they could at least give an advance on the childcare element (for those deemed by uc as too low-waged to afford childcare and uc offers up to 85%), within 2 weeks. Not have to find the money somehow upfront. With uncertainty over receiving payments back at all. That's not really 'helping/supporting' people going into work , as the govt claim is it....

UC needs fixed.

people can now, after pressure was put on the govt, get an advance of universal credit for the 5 week wait, not wages!!

Bashum,
Smeaton has done a reasonable job of explaining Council Tax. It's basically a local tax based on the size of your house. Scotland is the same as England

What benefits do unemployed or disabled people get in the USA? Is it a national system or does it vary state by state.

In the US, employees (particularly professionals) are much more inclined to carry disability insurance than their European counterparts, so disability and the like is handled privately. It's available as a payroll deduction in many (most?) companies.

Unemployment is, I believe, based on how much someone will have paid into the system over the years so I think that in fact it's quite possible to maintain one's standard of living (provided it's less than protracted).

I believe that UK council tax would best correspond to property taxes in the US, but they're practically negligible in comparison. My sister (US) pays something like $15K annually, but in her case it's more a proxy for private school fees (i.e., there are huge differentials from one school district to another, as in orders of magnitude).

Great if you carry insurance to cover disability what about people who were born disabled or who can't get insurace?

What about somebody like Smeaton.
He's been a SAHD, looked after his DD. The breadwinner (expartner) has left. He's struggling to get a job. How much support would he get from the state?

Their extended families or their kin (folk)? I know in my greatest times of need, not that I've ever been desperately poor three dogs, my family has come to the rescue and help shelter me or feed me or even lend me money. families do help. Very few families have the kind of disposable income to pay someone’s rent for a few months. Houses here are very small compared to the USA - the average UK family Home is about 72sqm (800 ish sq feet.) people have neither the space nor the money to help out sometimes. Also The majority of people I know don’t even live near family. Don’t forget we travel more, are more likely to work abroad. I have siblings in three different countries and none of us live closer than a plane ride from our parents. No cousins, no extended family.

Also don't any of these people have a church family or some semblance spiritual family? while I hate to quote Alastair Campbell, he was correct to say the british Dont Do God. Religion is a much smaller thing, and a much more private thing in the UK. The USA is an extremely religious society in comparison. A significant number of people are either atheist, Christian only in a kind of vague cultural way (carol service at Christmas, the odd wedding) and an awful lot of Hindus and Muslims I know are very similar- just not terribly observant and not very involved with any kind of community church. ‘Culturally catholic’ as Dara o’brien Put it.

It is very difficult to get insurance that would cover younlong term for income protection. I’ve looked and never found any suitable

That's why deciding to not work as a parent is a huge risk. A risk most don't think about as it suits them not to work.

It leaves a person very vulnerable in a relationship breakdown and employers want a recent reference and job record as it shows experience and a work ethic.