To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

[jnfrrss]

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

My thoughts are, that yes we need a welfare that for people who genuinely need it. But it should not be a lifestyle choice... Maybe you can adopt this kind of thought?

It seems to me a fair and sensible suggestion, the main problem being how you work out who's in which camp

Granted some in the "lifestyle choice" group will be quite open about it, but IME it's more usual for them to find something - anything - else to blame except themselves, using just the kind of rationales we've seen on here

crunchymint
Yes, but how much exactly do young children consume (assuming that you are not chasing the Joneses' latest bugaboo all the time)? Apart from the childcare, my dogs probably cost me more than my children (I have two in each category).

I read the outline of the universal credit changes provided in the article, I am still not clear if the NHS access and free schooling are also withdrawn for third+ children? If so, I can see the poverty argument.

Teacher an ex of mines father lost his job when my ex was a kid and "proudly refused all state help" My ex was one of 8. In the days before the Pill.

My ex would ask what was for breakfast or what was for dinner or what was for tea. And the answer was always the same, mushroom soup. This went on for a few months. My ex and his brothers and sisters got sick of mushroom soup but they had no choice.

Then my ex grew older and found out that his father could have got some financial help but refused due to "pride" To this day he still resents his father for putting pride before his childrens hunger health and welfare.

Resentment that is still there decades later but hey his father had pride!!!!!!!!!

"is there a high building nearby?"

Well there was but it burnt down despite tenants warning of the risk but they wernt listened to because they were only tenants. Still Teacher im sure their families will agree with you ..............that they are much better off ..............in the CEMETERY

Silver - All children can get nhs care and schooling in the UK free of charge. However, from how I understand the cap, you don’t get additional benefits for having a third child.

In many ways, this makes it more similar to working people, who often have to make a decesion as to whether to have a larger family or not. And many working families don’t expand their families because they can’t afford to.

Just noticed that dispatches is about UC tonight.

Puzzledandpissedoff it's amazingly simple!
If go with circumstances: lone parent with baby/ toddler definitely needs all the help but it could be restricted by children age and time... So your child is say 4 you have an other 12 months to sort yourself out. If your children are already in school, you could get up to 18 mounts of full on benefits help... after that a reduction unless you are training/ or at college ft.
Same for unemployment due to loss of job as in redundancy.
If you have a limiting disability you should get help. No restrictions or yearly assessment. just that.
If you're temporarily ill than it should last for the duration of the illness plus a further 6-12 months to help with finding work or retraining if needed. (Doctor / consultant note should be sufficient for the first 24 months after that there should be a second opinion ...)
Carers allowance should meet the minimum wage.
Once your time is up, they can bring in all the sanctions as currently debated under UC to put pressure on to find work.

Petalflowers
Thanks for explaining. Then I don't really see what the problem is. The story quoted in the first post is very sad, but for the parents' infantilism rather than anything else.

I've only just gotten around to reading the article.

“I have two sons but I've been denied the chance to have a daughter"

What a load of shite.

Bashun Smeaton is a man of 6 foot tall who thanks to UC now weighs 168 pounds (as i know you Americans dont do stones) and his weight is still decreasing.

Marie Stopes that proud proponent of Eugenics is alive and kicking and calling herself Boxsets...

In the meantime, Universal Credit is actually preventing people from getting back to work; has been declared by various select committees to be unworkable, a disaster, and a farce. People are going without, disabled people are dying and nobody appears to give a fuck. Even worse, if you have children that were born because you managed with a few extra tax credits, but you're going hungry now, so fucking what, it's your own fault. You should have saved because it's so incredibly easy to do on a minimum wage job. You should have insurance, never mind that it may not be fit for purpose, may never pay out, go for it anyway and then when you're actually on the benefits that aren't enough and that are screwed up regularly because you're on a zero hours contract, you must accept what you are given, with good grace and dignity.

You should have insurance, never mind that it may not be fit for purpose, may never pay out

Not if you get the right policy.

You are full of assumptions and scratching around to find any reason why UC won't work; may be this, may be that, may be maybe. Lots of may be's. See if you can't find any more may be's to go with that.

Petal yes Dispatches at 7.30pm tonight on Channel 4 is about UC and it features an MNer if its the same programme thats been mentioned on previous threads.

FFS How is someone on a low income going to pay in to such a policy.

The new system is more transparent and should ensure that those who abuse the system to claim large amounts of benefits are not able to do so. The U.K. Has a more generous welfare system than the USA, there is also free health care st the point of use.

*Dispatches at 7.30pm tonight on Channel 4

Arrr!, from the claimants point of view....remember don't believe what you hear on these documentaries!!!

Thats really not a good thing to say.

And wanting children to starve is a great thing to say?

Ive been in that industry back in the early 2000s working the chatlines on night shifts in an office and we had all sorts of men use our services including very posh ones with real Sandhurst accents. I had a regular from Cirencester and i remember exactly how he sounded all these years later.

Gin If you cant take it dont dish it out!!

There is a bloke on this thread rapidly becoming underweight Some of the posts on here disgust me.

"Arrr!, from the claimants point of view....remember don't believe what you hear on these documentaries!! "

Are you including the Channel 5 ones there?

You are full of assumptions and scratching around to find any reason why UC won't work; may be this, may be that, may be maybe. Lots of may be's. See if you can't find any more may be's to go with that.
No assumptions. It's not working, government select committees say so. Even the DWP have admitted it.
Did you miss the post where I pointed out that when I move to an area with UC I will lose £175.00 per month. No assumptions, no maybes. Fact. Disabled people are losing money under UC. Fact. The system is messing people up who work.

Some worthshile suggestions there, Sinuhe

You will of course be told that they're useless because there's no work / support / whatever available, but it was ever thus

There were a couple of comments way back in the thread about the "problem" of people who are paid four-weekly who therefore get no UC when they are two paydays in a month. I'd just like to remind everyone that actually irregular income is overall beneficial, it results in you getting more UC on average over the year than someone who is paid the same amount every month.

Take three people who each earn 12K a year.
A is paid monthly
B is paid four weekly
C is paid (for some legitimate reason) once a year.

C will receive more UC than B, who will receive more than A.

In fact it's so much the case that irregular income works to your advantage that the government is taking action to combat people colluding with their employers to do it deliberately.

UC is being brought in to centralise and update the system to be fit for the 21st century, it is needed, but with any government IT project its a fuck up and implementation is a nightmare.

UC will be a better system going forward, but using the extreme examples of fuck ups is not justification that the evil tories want to kill the poor or even more hyperbolic do away with the benefit system all together.

All main parties are for the cap and 2 child limit, they are arguing of the shit show of implementation and moved onto costs of living wages etc.

We then get into the fine balancing act of a globalised economy and the threat of capital flight/inflation and automation.

Someone mentioned that the initial introduction of tax credits raised 800,000 children out of poverty, what they forgot was that after the headline figure 200,000 of those was automatically back into poverty due to the inflationary cycle of giving out more money!

People are quick to say that the money is going into private landlords hands (under the assumption that every landlord is some tory toff when the likes of the guardian where ) whilst ignoring that during the boom banks where including government funded tax credits into what mortgages they could have, when the financial crash happened (that we was complicit in, even though it started in the US) we decided to prevent it becoming even more of shit show by paying people's mortgage interest directly to the banks.

Before the benefit cap came in, there was many threads on here from low wage full time workers who complained about the couple down the road being better of than they was, it was met with the usual derision of them being a daily mail reading bigot, yet it has been shown that it was true in many circumstances, hence why the cap came was introduced and why the main parties support it.

The general population across the political spectrum want a welfare system that supports those in genuine need and force some personal responsibility.