To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

[jnfrrss]

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

I don't see people running to the taxman wanting to pay more tax so we have to use what we have carefully and fairly. If you are able to work then you should do.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for themselves. Having a welfare state that provides for virtually everything creates a dependent state. Which we have now.

Someone upthread complained about people having to take time off for UC appointments, but we all have to take time off for appointments. It's common sense that if you work and you need a GP/Dentist/Solicitors appt you book leave. So why do we have to feel sorry for someone you has to take leave for a UC appointment? Like it's a harsh punishment. If you want to make a claim then that is the process.

Bluelonerose
Having an abortion is awful.

However once you have had an abortion, you only have that experience of what happened.

Sometimes I think that once someone has had an abortion, they don't consider what would have happened if they had gone through with the pregnancy.

It is almost as if they imagine that having the child would have been all positive and everything would have worked out for the best.

The lady in the article could have not had the abortion and brought up three boys, still longing for a daughter and may have really struggled.

Thing is when we talk about the downsides of abortion, people sometimes forget that the alternative may not have worked out any better or may have been far worse.

I know I have written this quite clumsily but I hope it makes sense.

Don't you think it's a bit crazy they cap how many people can have children in this country but saying we need immigration so the young population can prop up the older generations?

Twounder1

I think it's ridiculous. I think the benefit system is completely ridiculous. I work and my dp has worked since he was 18 and left college. Yet as soon as he was let go from his job, we had no help. Then I learnt I was pregnant again unexpectedly and cannot claim. MA. We live on 400 a month.

I'm not understanding, as you work why are you looking to claim MA, if you haven't moved jobs since before you became pregnant it should by SMP you claim.

If he's paid NI he should get JSA, why is he not entitled to it?

@BoxsetsAndPopcorn you are very naive if you think it is covered. Disability benefits were promised to be protected. That hasn’t happened. So you can deflect and deny, but it doesn’t change the fact that the government you are so very keen on defending HAVE thrown disabled people under the bus because of pandering to views like yours.

The two child rule works in principle, what it doesn’t do is work in reality alongside swingeing and arbitrary cuts, sanctions and UC.

So the system put in place to appease people angry at the welfare state may well have stopped people screwing the system. In the course of that it has screwed many, many thousands of people who were doing no wrong, and has left them unable to live properly in the UK in 2018.

As part of the outrage about the minority who are screwing the system, the majority have been made to suffer because of it. And that does include disabled adults and children, whether you care to admit it or not.

By the way you sound like a poster boy for the corbynistas with your for the many not the few blah. You realise corbyn lives in an Islington house
See the world as it is, not as what you think it should be. Until you do that none of your political solutions will ever offer anything practical and real. Exhibit a is the council elections. People are rightly not convinced by your oh so shouty student politics

Right, so what it boils down to is that you don't like my politics because you can't actually answer the questions, you blindly support Benthamite policies without fully comprehending the impact and so to shore up your position you decide I'm a juvenile. You keep going with the logical fallacies, they'll do very little to assist you.
Oh, local election results, stop listening to the biased hype.

Nice pie chart but this from the telegraph :

Labour failed to make the big local elections breakthrough in London that many were predicting with key targets Wandsworth, Westminster and Kensington & Chelsea remaining under Conservative control.

There was relief for Theresa May as her party performed relatively well, gaining Peterborough and Basildon.

Kensington and Chelsea is the Grenfell borough so what does that tell you?

No overall winner I'm afraid.

The vote split was exactly equal between the Tories and Labour. Traditionally the sitting government is given a bloody nose at the council elections so that is extremely poor.

To look at it comparatively, in 1996 Blair won 468 extra seats and 14% more of the vote than the Tories before his landslide.

The local election result was actually a shitshow for Labour. Because results like that at local elections translate as incapable of winning a general election.

Kensington and Chelsea is the Grenfell borough so what does that tell you?

It tells me that despite sound bites after the disaster, nobody really gave a shit after all.

I rather think that people have lost faith in all politicians, but this is what the tories wanted. This way they hang on; albeit by the skin of their teeth.

Oh, local election results, stop listening to the biased hype.

Oh, the irony...

Put simply the Tories did better despite the elections coming only a few days after Windrush and AR's resignation.

It tells me Labour and especially Corbyn/Abbott/McDonnell are unelectable.

I rather think that people have lost faith in all politicians, but this is what the tories wanted. This way they hang on; albeit by the skin of their teeth

I agree with this. The fact that people are prepared to vote for them given their track record, their indifference to many in this country and their willingness to get into bed with the DUP appalls me. Because if a lot of people knew what the DUP are and stand for, I would hope it would change their minds.

They make the Tories look decent. And that’s saying something.

I rather think that people have lost faith in all politicians, but this is what the tories wanted.

How can you translate everyone losing faith in politicians as something the Tories wanted?

So its the Tories fault for Labour being such a shitshow?

Apathy always benefits the Tories. As does disillusionment creating disaffection.

I still love how labour actually doing far better the conservatives (they lost alot of Councillors) some how means labour is doing poorly? does the only group too win more stuff was the Lib Dems but hey believe that labour are doing poorly just because the BBC says they are.

Apathy always benefits the Tories. As does disillusionment creating disaffection.

But that isn't the tories doing, its a spotlight on how badly labour under Corbyn actually are.

It is not the Tories fault that every council Momentum campaigned in they lost, the one which they had to cancel last minute Labour won.

We have hit peak corbyn, many Conservatives was expecting a bloody nose as is tradition, the fact they didn't should be a wake up call as to how bad labour actually are, not the tired old arguments of biased media etc.

I still love how labour actually doing far better the conservatives (they lost alot of Councillors) some how means labour is doing poorly?

You are comparing FPTP with what the expected tradition of what a sitting government of 8 years with all the scandals it is wrapped up did not get the kicking that most conservatives themselves were expecting.

That is what everyone is focusing on, its no use rewriting the scenario now, when before Thursday London was going to painted red etc.

John McDonnell assuming major Labour gains: “On that percentage share of the vote, we could take those parliamentary seats next time around.” John McDonnell after no major Labour gains: “We can’t read into local elections anymore what will happen at a general election.”

twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/992203775174742016

However you try and spin this, Labour did badly

So it tells me most people are OK with how the Tories are rolling out UC, they don't see it as a major policy to be concerned about.

Most people are sick of see the homeless on their streets and want something doing about it rather than being concerned about why this person is homeless in the first place.

I'm really worried about the in-work conditionality. When my baby is school age, from what I understand, they could make me quit my graduate part-time job and make me do full time shelf stacking.

This will affect all mums on p/t work, no matter how many children they have.

Tories think that UC will only affect long-term unemployed people, and those who "have children they can't afford".

But actually this will also affect mums in part time work with a low earning partner for example. This will affect single mums (a large amount of whom are older divorced women, not council-house seeking teenagers) who are working part time in decent jobs.

This is a decimation of the line between the "deserving" and "undeserving poor" - a line I don't agree with anyway, but many people do.

As for the child limit thing, I think that logically people should only have as many children as they can afford, but life happens, unplanned pregnancies happen, and people should not feel forced into having an abortion. Its awful. And all kids should have enough to eat, no matter how many siblings they have and what choices their parents have made.

So it tells me most people are OK with how the Tories are rolling out UC, they don't see it as a major policy to be concerned about

How many of them are directly affected by it? Because there is too much “I’m alright, fuck everyone else” going on at the moment.

The only people throwing children under the bus are the parents who chose to have them. That's not the governments fault or voters, it 100% lies with the parents who chose to have the child

This ^^

And while I'm no statistician and can't actually know, I've often wondered about the thing around benefit fraud being just a tiny %. Isn't it at least possible that the claim suits politicians just fine ... the left because they've made a client group out of the disadvantaged, the right because they don't want to rile their supporters up too much for fear of being labelled the "nasty party" too often and the whole lot of them because they don't really know what to do about the whole issue?

I'm the first to admit I'm being cynical, but I also remember the old saw about "lies, damned lies and statistics"

I'm missing something.

There is another thread going on about single mum on UC debating should I / shouldn't I get a job.

And one who's BIL with SAHM earns £20k plus £10k tax credits and £3k child benefit. He sees no point go getting a better job as his TC will reduce. Seriously what would somebody need to earn to take home £34k after tax?

Does make you wonder why folk bother going to college / uni and get a shed load of debt. Followed a job with a shed load of responsibility and stress.

Something needs to change.

I'm really worried about the in-work conditionality. When my baby is school age, from what I understand, they could make me quit my graduate part-time job and make me do full time shelf stacking

As it should be. Part time work is a luxury, if you can't afford it (and clearly not as claiming benefits) then you either up your hours, stop claiming or accept that you will be forced into more hours maybe elsewhere. Nobody has the right to just work a few hours because they want to at the expense of others.