To think this is why more parents don’t volunteer

[Hoppinggreen]

So DH has been asked by a teacher (via DS) to help with a certain after school club where he has expertise. He is happy to do it and will finish work early that day to do it. So far so good BUT Aibu to think that the hoops he has to jump through to do it are a bit ott?
Firstly he has had to fill in a 10 page document, then he has to have a DBS, then he has to complete an online safeguarding course, attend an induction in School and present 2 forms of ID “to make sure he is who he says he is”
DH works on a govt contract and has high level security and 2 current DBS certs ( one less than 6 months old). We have also had children at the school for the past 8 years and I am well known to the school as well ( for the right reasons!). He has volunteered there before but as it was over 12 months ago he has to do all this for 1 hour once a week where he will be accompanied by a teacher anyway.
He works full time, some times with long hours and is a highly paid expert in this subject - if I hadn’t offered to sort most of this out for him I doubt he would be bothering
So Aibu to think this is a bit excessive? What do other schools do?
I know that safeguarding is important but all this will tell them is that he has no convictions, nothing else.

Tbh, OP, there's a little bit of 'my dh is so important and senior that he shouldn't have to be bothered with all this' about your posts, as well as in your emphasising that you're taking care of it for him.

The checks have to be the same for everyone, otherwise what would be the point?

Well now its you who can't work out what the arguement is. I have clearly stated dbs and supervision.
Supervision does not stop child abuse. DBS doesn't stop child abuse. Safeguarding training doesn't stop child abuse. All these measures together don't stop child abuse. Most in isolation are a blunt tool, including I am afraid supervision. However just because supervision is a blunt tool does not mean I would advocate against it.

Child abuse rarely happens in the classroom, it happens when trusted adults build relationships with children and go on to exploit them outside of the school the youth club etc. Yet despite that I still advocate for supervision because it is part of safeguarding.

Even a cleaner would need all this...

I agree it seems a pain in the arse Hoppinggreen and I know of parents who have been put off by it but it really is absolutely necessary

DBS check only required if there is close and unsupervised contact with children or vulnerable adults.

Supervision does not stop child abuse

actually in many situations it does. Pretty hard to do much in room full of children and several adults.
You've forgotten to use logic.

YABU

You seem to think your DH does some an important and well paid job and is far too busy and important to bother with this nonesense, that’s for other people, less important people.

The checks are the same for everyone. They have to be. Other wise you get people exploiting loopholes because of the old boys network or because of who they are (remember jimmy saville, no one challenged him because of who he was).

You can sign up to the DBS Update Service as soon as you have the receipt for your application.

It is £13 for non voluntary roles and free for voluntary roles.

I have been to three schools recently, all of whom checked my DBS online.

Some schools take it to ridiculous levels - previous school my kids were at required a full basically teaching post application form, multiple references, the certificates to say you'd done the Prevent training, every single policy in the school handbook signed and a DBS to go sit in the corner of a classroom, never left alone with children at all, and hear readers. I have all that information to hand and I'm fairly OK filling in teaching application forms... but it nearly put me off getting given a pile of paper that was at least 1/2 inch thick... then the buggers lost it all! It's very very confrontational how they do it - you basically have to beg and grovel to be allowed to go in and volunteer (I'm an ex-teacher wanting to start to rebuild my CV after the kids returned to school)!

Kids' current school - you have to do an induction session with the head where she runs a few at the start of the year, get talked through their general safeguarding and behaviour policies and sign these. If you're coming in regularly you need a DBS check but they're very very strict about not leaving volunteers with kids anyway. They ask for anyone who is going to help with anything down to walking to the local church upwards to do that - and once you've done it you're OK for the whole of the time your kids are in the school. While they are very careful with safeguarding, it's all done in a low key friendly way (you wouldn't notice how carefully things were being handled if you weren't clued in on how schools are) and they have parents in and out doing different things in different classes all the time - such a nicer feeling around the school and not this horrid "them and us" thing the other school has.

I'd also have more confidence in the second school to keep my kids safe to be honest - some iffy safeguarding and very iffy responses to safeguarding concerns were the final straw in why I moved my kids.

For me it is the other stuff that puts me off volunteering. My MIL was asked to come do a demonstration of something she is good at. There were 3 teachers in the room at the time and my MIL didn't go anywhere near the DC. For this she had to complete a 6 page risk assessment and be a certain distance away from the DC. She said never again as she felt like a criminal.

I was also involved in traffic duty. I had to go on a safeguarding course and sign loads of forms. I have also been told that when I am in the building (I go in to put up posters for events) I have to wear a special coloured badge to show I am not DBS checked.

I agree with references and DBS checks for people who teach or coach the DC. I won't volunteer anymore though because of the paperwork involved in small things and the constant shooting down of good ideas because of H&S.

Sounds right and good to me. Yes it's a lot of stuff to do, but the whole idea is to protect children and prevent those who would hurt them applying. Not everyone who has hurt children has a criminal record. Many are respectable people. Many may have been known by the school in a positive light for years.

Yes it's a PITA but it's for a reason.

I do DBS checks on volunteers (I'm a volunteer in that role myself).

The reason you have to have a DBS check for multiple organisations if you don't register with the update service (which many posters have explained means you can make your DBS portable if you're doing the same level of job) is because if you're accused of something and, maybe, need to be heavily supervised whilst an investigation goes on, the only people that the DBS department can contact are those who have registered that you're working for them (if that makes sense).

So, let's say you have a DBS at your work and the school (or church or guides or whoever) accept that as confirmation that you've been DBS checked. You then have an allegation against you and you're supervised or put onto other duties whilst the allegation is being investigated. Your work would know but the school (or church etc) wouldn't because no one would be aware that you were working for them. If they've looked you up on the register and you've not logged your DBS for portability they can't put a mark against your name to say you're working for them. So you'd be free to carry on, unsupervised possibly, in the secondary role whilst the primary role is holding you at arms length.

That's why you jump through hoops for all the organisations that need a DBS - it registers that that organisation is using your services so if there's an allegation they'll all be told.

By the way, the portable DBS system only works if you're doing roles that need the same level of DBS - if you need a higher check you'll have to complete another application.

There was absolutely no need for a full employment application form. This is a school who desperately want to keep the parents OUT and it was all done just to try to deter anyone from wanting to go in (the head loathes the parents quite openly).

There are ways of doing things which don't just start from the default position of pissing people off. Like I say our school does it superbly - they're supervising their volunteers very carefully, but not in this "you must stand 5 feet away from small children at all times" manner.

I find it over the top, I have done volunteer work in schools in the Netherlands, in the classroom and driving children to school excursions, in Germany helping out make crafts for school Christmas market, helping with swimming lessons, never have I had any checks, it is expected in both countries that parent's help out, that sometimes includes driving other children to school activities, I doubt this would happen if you had to have a police check for a one off activity. If i moved back to the Uk and wanted to volunteer I would need police checks from four separate countries so therefore would just not be volunteering as it would be too difficult. I can understand if you have one to one activities with children but find it ridiculous that a parent cannot present something to a class with a teacher present without having a DBS check.

YANBU. I agree that the excessive bureaucracy around the checking process puts people off volunteering.
I have child safeguarding responsibilities in a local computer club and it's a real struggle to get suitably experienced adults to volunteer their time to help. It's doubly frustrating when you do manage to find someone willing and extremely competent who then gets stuck in the system waiting for someone in HQ to approve it, after it's been ok'd by the police. Unfortunately, my last volunteer lost interest in the end and it was so frustrating as he was obviously good at engaging the children on their level. I agree that DBS type checks are important but they really ought to be able to streamline the approval process so that it can be done mostly online and easily checked and updated.
After all, it doesn't negate the need to be vigilant when you're actually running the club.
We live rurally and as DS has no siblings, we rely heavily on after school activities to enable DS to make friends outside of the small village school.

A decade or so ago I was (and had been for a long time) tealady at a cricket club.

I was told I had to get a DBS check if I wanted to continue as the club had a

The rules have to be the same for everyone no matter who the person is and what dbs checks they’ve had done in the past.

The Soham murders would not have happened had the checks been done on Huntley correctly as he wouldn’t have been offered the job which earned him trust with the girls and access to the school grounds.

I think the safeguarding training is all about what your DH would have to do if he suspected child abuse, in case a pupil opens up to him.

It is OTT but it’s better this way.

Indeed it does stop people abusing children in front of an entire class, it does not stop children viewing a volunteer as a trusted adult and therefore being vulnerable outside the classroom, where most abuse takes place.

Didn't CRB checks come about because of Ian Huntley??

Indeed it does stop people abusing children in front of an entire class, it does not stop children viewing a volunteer as a trusted adult and therefore being vulnerable outside the classroom, where most abuse takes place

Yes, where said volunteer does not have access to them, you mean.

Where they are actually vulnerable is at home, and in the homes of their friends and relatives. If you actually want to safeguard your children, dbs check and get safreguarding courses done for your kids friends fathers, and your own male relatives.

The intense focus on some areas and none on others, the box ticking exercises that make you feel safe when you are not helping anything, the buzzwords and paperwork...it all contributes to a lack of actual guarding of children from abuse.

Of course volunteers have access to them outside the classroom. Huntley being a example of that.

It's inconvenient but reassuring to parents to know these checks are frequent and rigorous.

a very bad example.

It's inconvenient but reassuring to parents to know these checks are frequent and rigorous.

Exactly, it reassures them but falsely. You should not be reassured by a clean DBS check. Most child abusers would get one. It leads to false complacency.

I am rather high up in the legal profession and I need a DBS check every 6 months to help out on DS' basketball team.