To think this is why more parents don’t volunteer

[Hoppinggreen]

So DH has been asked by a teacher (via DS) to help with a certain after school club where he has expertise. He is happy to do it and will finish work early that day to do it. So far so good BUT Aibu to think that the hoops he has to jump through to do it are a bit ott?
Firstly he has had to fill in a 10 page document, then he has to have a DBS, then he has to complete an online safeguarding course, attend an induction in School and present 2 forms of ID “to make sure he is who he says he is”
DH works on a govt contract and has high level security and 2 current DBS certs ( one less than 6 months old). We have also had children at the school for the past 8 years and I am well known to the school as well ( for the right reasons!). He has volunteered there before but as it was over 12 months ago he has to do all this for 1 hour once a week where he will be accompanied by a teacher anyway.
He works full time, some times with long hours and is a highly paid expert in this subject - if I hadn’t offered to sort most of this out for him I doubt he would be bothering
So Aibu to think this is a bit excessive? What do other schools do?
I know that safeguarding is important but all this will tell them is that he has no convictions, nothing else.

I agree, and how would the people who compain about paperwork feel about having to always have a supervisor

Perfectly happy with that. I always ensure that there are two fully checked adults (and the teams are always mixed up) at all times.

I do reading at a school; I'm always fully visible to various members of staff at all times. The only time I'm not is when I'm changing reading books in an empty classroom whilst the children are on break

and how would the people who compain about paperwork feel about having to always have a supervisor

Not a problem. You're better off as a volunteer having another adult with you anyway as it drastically reduces the likelihood of false claims....

I actually think it is crazy if the teacher is going to be there the whole time and he is a parent of someone at the school.

As parents we get invited into the school to watch plays and help with activities and we don't have any of those checks because the teachers are always present.

Yes dbs and constant supervision but that is what the school are proposing. They are also offering training which shows a real commitment to their volunteers.

I agree, and how would the people who compain about paperwork feel about having to always have a supervisor

Absolutely delighted, makes perfect sense, and actually does something with regarding safeguarding.

A DBS and a lot of forms then leaving kids alone with a volunteer is far riskier than no dbs and no forms but making sure volunteers are never alone with children.

Do what actually helps, not what makes you feel more secure.

Surely anyone, regardless of how high-powered, busy and senior they are in their own jobs, has to be subject to the same rules as everyone else who works with vulnerable adults or children and do the DBS check for any organisation they are doing that with?! I would expect ID to be provided too, along with a verifiable home address.

Are the organisation just supposed to take the word of someone who says they are senior, security checked and an expert in their field? That's how priests, vicars and other well-known, recognisable "pillars of the community" got away with abusing kids for so long without anyone questioning it, because everyone took their word for things!

Being DBS checked and filling out a form would never put me off volunteering something I believed in or wanted to do. I'm DBS checked for my job anyway, but wouldn't expect another organisation to accept that - I'd want them to do their own checks - in fact I wouldn't want to volunteer for them if they didn't!!!!!

He will never be alone with a child ( except ours when they are leaving the class). A teacher and assistant run it, he has been asked because he’s an expert
Also, I am trying to register him for the online training he has to do and despite 3 attempts I haven’t been able to! As I keep saying for people who are hard of reading it WILL all be done properly but I can see how some people might just think “sod it” and go and do something else instead

I was never put off the application process or DBS to volunteer and if a volunteer wasnt probably checked then i would not be happy. If its such a hassle for YOU just dont do it. My reasons and observation is the lack of time, cliques and encrouchement on free time with back and forth emails.

im more worried that after all this how are some still slipping through the net! and are horrible men/woman doing still terrible things to our children.surely this should put a definite stop to that happening

Your dh sounds lovely op and the school are lucky to have him volunteer. However we have in our society a minority of completely and utterly fucked up twisted individuals. And they look just like the rest of us. So we have to do the best we can with these forms.

Gosh. That must have taken him -ooh, 15 minutes?

So we are all happy with no dbs check as long as people aren't alone with children. I don't believe anyone who says that.
Billy who runs the judo club has a conviction relating to children but we are all comfortable with that because his judo assistant will always be there.
Dbs check and constant supervision.

How is no dbs check the same thing as knowing someone has a conviction> Don't be silly.

DBS certs are not the same as CRBs are they? I used to have to have a separate CRB for every role I undertook; now I have a rolling DBS that renews itself every year and I can look at it on-line to see who has accessed it. If I do forget the piece of paper, the organisations I work with can use any official ID document to verify that I am who I say I am, and can use the on-line look-up facility to access my DBS. The whole point of them is that you DON'T need lots of them (which is costly and stupid) for different roles: They are now like a driving licence which travels with you.

The other paperwork is necessary though. Every school or children's centre I've worked with has required that I fill up their own (often identical) safeguarding paperwork.

So it sounds like the school are making it more complicated than t has to be.

Him never being alone with a child is irrelevant.

It only being an hour a week is irrelevant.

Children and other vulnerable people cannot, and shouldn't be expected to, tell the difference between different categories of trusted adult. They will perceive your DH as a trusted adult by virtue of that 1 hour a week and will therefore trust him. And that's fine because clearly he is worthy of that trust. Because of that he needs to go through the same vetting and training as a full time member of staff because he will receive the same trust as a full time member of staff.

A lot of the safeguarding training will be about how to deal with it if someone confides in you about a safeguarding situation. That is a situation he could well find himself in

(Kid thinks "I can't tell {teacher} as {abuser} told me he would hurt {sibling} if I told my parents or teachers. But Mr HoppingGreen isn't a teacher so I can tell him)

I 'volunteer' at church, in that once a month I am on a rota to wear a white robe, carry a candle in front of the vicar when he goes in and out, and administer the cup of wine at communion. One time during after-service-coffee someone said to me "Oh you are one of the nuns aren't you, I can ask you..." (I am REALLY not a nun, I promise) but as a volunteer I was visible enough for people to invest all sorts of expectations of trustworthiness on me. So yes it is quite right that having the DBS and the safeguarding training and the acres of forms (all of which I had to do for this simple volunteering role) should indeed apply.

Because you wouldn't know if we remove dbs checks. My 27 years working in safeguarding makes me a bit silly sometimes.
I am also fascinated by how people who advocate the no dbs would overcome the grooming issue. Strangely enough not a lot of child abuse happens in a classroom in front of other people. People who want to abuse children build a relationship with them then arrange to meet them alone. This is basic safeguarding stuff.

Nobody is advocating no dbs! You should probably work out what people are actually saying before you argue against them

I also volunteer and run an extra curricular club at my child's school. I have home office and several police authority security clearances and have signed the official secrets act. The background of me, my partner and my wider family have been thoroughly checked because of the data I have access to. I still had to get a DBS through the school and do the safeguarding training before being allowed to volunteer.

I'm also well known in school - my DP is a governor and a school founder and we've both been heavily involved with the school since well before it even opened.

I agree that the DBS seems rather low level compared to the others but if that's what the school require then that's what the school require. I hadn't done the online safeguarding training previously and it was actually very worthwhile.

My reading ability is fine, numerous posts on this thread saying what a waste of time a dbs is, I counted 5 before I got bored.

My reading ability is fine, numerous posts on this thread saying what a waste of time a dbs is, I counted 5 before I got bored

As I said it’s a blunt instrument. DBS doesn’t stop people abusing children. However as we don’t have a better system right now then I agree people should have them.

But councils should also not apply their own rules above and beyond the national requirements to make it even harder. THAT is my point.

It’s normal these days

I had to do a DBS and a safeguarding course

Better that they do it really

Yimmini s example is a perfect illustration of why those checks are important.
No one thinks dbs stops incidents occurring, it is a part of a whole raft of measures which need to be in place. Safeguarding training, which was also a requirement according to op is part of that. Again yimminis post illustrate perfectly why that would be asked for.

My reading ability is fine, numerous posts on this thread saying what a waste of time a dbs is, I counted 5 before I got bored

But you know, if you are an expert as you claim, that it is practically useless. Most child abusers have a clean DBS check.

How can anyone argue with the absolute obvious fact that children are safer with a supervised volunteer than a dbs checked unsupervised volunteer?

The safeguarding document won’t just be about preventing your husband from abusing children though. It’ll be about recognising the signs of abuse and what to do in the event of a disclosure. Not sure how you can argue it’s not needed..

Schools have to cover their backs nowadays. Parents would be the first to start shouting and kids would suffer if something went wrong. It's a pain, but that's the way it is.