To not be certain what people mean when they say they work for 12 hours a day.

[topcat2014]

Now, I get that we are busy - but here is my question.

If people say they work 60 hours a week (say), then do they really mean:

At my desk from 07:00 to 19:30 with a half hour for lunch, every day - or

Leave the house at 07:00 and arrive home at 19:00.

I have never worked anywhere where staff are sat at their desks from 7am to 7pm, so not quite sure.

@bumblingbovine49 yes it's exactly that!!

Any kind of project based work has crunch times, it's difficult to scope based on changing client needs, and you can't magic up staff out of thin air - and you also can't hire staff just in case you do bring in the additional work, because it's not sustainable to have under utilised resource without billing their time out

We depend significantly on freelancers but even then there's challenges of finding people with the right skillset who have availability, plus onboarding them

And it depends also on what other projects are going on as to how internal resource can be reallocated

You might win a tender but the project ends up not kicking off for ages and the team you'd lined up can't stay on standby, so get cracking on other projects with more immediate needs

Simply saying 'hire more staff' or 'just leave at 6' is incredibly simplistic and doesn't reflect commercial realities of a service business

12 Hour shift are common in the NHS,cheaper for management as only 2 overlapping hand over times per 24 hrs.Not so good for staff health,mental and physical.
So I leave the house 7am work from8am to 8.30,half hour unpaid meal break if I'm lucky and home 9.30.This can be weekends,bank holiday or nights all mixed in.
Home life suffers and with a bit of overtime thrown in to help with ward cover and pay the bills no wonder I'm always tired.

Simply saying 'hire more staff' or 'just leave at 6' is incredibly simplistic and doesn't reflect commercial realities of a service business

The commercial realities are for those making the money to worry about. If you have people working for peanuts and you expect them to work past their contracted hours, you're being unreasonable. Its the people at the bottom who get exploited so that those at the top can make the profits.

I've had plenty of jobs where I've been expected to put in a lot of extra hours, and I've been happy to do so: when and only when I am paid what I am worth. Not for the good of the team or the good of the company, while being underpaid and walked over.

DH starts getting calls from HQ at about 4am, leaves the house by 6 if flying to a customer or 7am if working from the office, getting calls the whole way to work (meaning if something has been forgotten I can't get hold of him which is fucking annoying when he took the script for the baby to work with him). He has breakfast at 9 in the office or if visiting customers his first meeting is a breakfast meeting. He is normally on his way home by 4:30pm, takes about 2 hours off work to spend time with the kids. 1-3 times a week he will then be taking a customer to dinner, writing a report, dealing with a diversity issue or something from his own business. By 10pm he is always zonked out.

The 4am phone calls drive us nuts. It's always someone saying I emailed you at 8am and it's 10am now. I need an answer from you. DH is like it's 4am. I was sleeping 2 hours ago. I'll call you back in 2 hours when I'm awake unless an employee has died or there has been some other catastrophic event which has to be dealt with by me.

My regular working day is 8:30/9-6:30/7 with half an hour for lunch. I'd love to get into the office for 7am and be able to leave by 5.

The commercial realities are for those making the money to worry about. If you have people working for peanuts and you expect them to work past their contracted hours, you're being unreasonable. Its the people at the bottom who get exploited so that those at the top can make the profits.

What do you consider peanuts?

The skills are in demand, to hire decent people you have to pay above market rate

I'm a freelance consultant and work with lots of service businesses in house

I am the people doing the work and working beyond my contracted hours. The ceo and coo of the company I'm at are there doing the hours too. I'm senior, director level, and I do more hours than the associates

I am paid very well for doing so. Associates are also paid very well, commensurate with their experience.

So if I decide I don't fancy working long hours, I need to find a new industry. Because if a company decides they want to staff a team with double the headcount to have people on standby in case a project comes in, they're going to have to charge everyone out at double the industry norm, and the client will go elsewhere. And people will be let go. And either go to a competitor to work industry norm hours, or find a new sector to work in

I work as a self employed childminder and as I work alone I don't get a break. (I'm not working at the moment, I'm caring for my son only for a while as he's out of school).

So for me I can work a 10 hour or 12 hour day and you don't get to have a wee or a drink in peace, and definitely don't get a lunch break. Lunch usually involves retrieving spoons off the floor and food off the walls/floor, getting more drinks, a cloth, etc.

Not all jobs have built in breaks.

I used to work in banking. Average hours were about 50 a week but that was 2 weeks a month at 40 hours and 2 weeks at 60 hours. I'd usually work 8am till 8.30pm (ish) with sandwich at my desk.

Many in my organization work silly hours unfortunately. Many many years ago when I came back from maternity leave I worked 9-4 - this was very rare at the time for someone who was on an accelerated promotion track but I wanted to collect them from nursery. I’ve never worked in the evenings. When DT’s went to prep school and had after school activities at school I agreed to work until 5 as they didn’t need collecting so early. DT’s are now at Uni and next week DH and I are dropping to a 4 day working week so we can have more time for ourselves/ long weekends away. I think we’ve managed succes careers and sensible working hours.

I've had plenty of jobs where I've been expected to put in a lot of extra hours, and I've been happy to do so: when and only when I am paid what I am worth. Not for the good of the team or the good of the company, while being underpaid and walked over.

What would you consider underpaid?

Is £50k peanuts? £100k?

Salary surveys for my industry are published openly so it's easy to benchmark yours.

If you feel your entire industry is undervaluing your individual worth, then the sector probably isn't for you, which is absolutely fair enough

I charge above market rate because I believe I'm worth it. The companies who hire me recognise this and pay me my day rate.

Looking at all this overtime from a business perspective, you are saving on employing an extra person but how good is the output of someone who has already worked 11 hours on that day or 50 hours that week?

Health care in the community, shifts are 07.30 to 19.00 with 30 mins for lunch + lots of driving between patients. Night shifts are 21.00 to 07.00 with no official break (lone working in the home), if it's a quiet night we can grab a tea/coffee/snack if not then we plough through.

how good is the output of someone who has already worked 11 hours on that day or 50 hours that week?

Most of the people who work in these kinds of jobs have high levels of stamina and resilience (at least in the short term). So outputs aren't usually a problem for employers

Until the employee in question totally burns out. Which is common. But not enough of a problem for employers to want to change the system.

how good is the output of someone who has already worked 11 hours on that day or 50 hours that week?

You get used to it and develop the resilience. Burnout is common though. I'm at a point now where I feel as focused and capable at hour 11 as I do at hour 2, but the stress piles up.

OP are you say 18 years and thinking about work?

you say "60 hour week"

that could mean anything - 5 days a week of working 12 hours, not including any breaks. Or split shifts. Or you could be working in events and some days do 14 hours and some days do 5. Or medical work or security guard....could be anything really.

but if you are wondering what it includes, no it doesn't include commute or break time. It means actually working at the task for 60 hours.

I also work 12 hour shifts. Leave the house at 6, start work at 715, finish work at 1930 get home at about 2030.

Rotating 12 hour shifts here as well. As I commute quite a long way, I find it easier. I don't work 5 days a week.

Bin men aren't getting up for a morning yoga class when they start at 4:30am (I live on the first route around here).

A lot of bin men are on job and finish, most probably don't work their 37 contracted hours nevermind anything more.

A lot of bin men are on job and finish, most probably don't work their 37 contracted hours nevermind anything more

Some local to us are currently on strike because they aren't being allowed to take leave and are owed many years of leave between them.

I know bin men (and women, there have to be at least a few) have traditionally been considered to be well paid for easy work now that everyone has wheelie bins, but in the age of contracting out to the private sector and council cuts plus massively more complicated waste streaming (look at how many people complain about how many different waste bags, bins and boxes they have to deal with) I don't think it's the doss that it used to be any more.

I’m a nurse so I’m work by 7.15 on the floor all day save for my 30 minute lunch and finish at 8pm ,

soulrider I see your point but my prompt remains relevant. How many of the posters here saying they wouldn't or couldn't do those jobs realise and appreciate the workers who enable them?

I have a (part time) colleague sitting across the desk from me when I'm at work who's complained her psysio can only do appointments to 7pm the last few times. I wonder how many dinners or bathtimes her psysio can do with her own kids? Not many I'm assuming. Just trying to point out that we're all responsibile for the cut throat modern work culture to some extent.

I will finish at about 8pm tomorrow. Meanwhile I'll go food shopping on my way home (no local small business open at that hour) in a big Sainsbury's, with workers who are underpaid and underemployed from what I gather based on a family member who works there. So overemplyed me is contributing to their antisocial hours and fragmented working pattern by needing to shop for normal stuff at ever later hours.

Their blood and sweat, my benefit. And further up the chain it's due to my employer. Who in turn answer to shareholders who want their money's worth.

I work in care and shifts are 12 hours for continuity for residents throughout the day. Day staff do 8am to 8pm. Night shifts 8pm to 8am.

I'm a healthcare support worker in a hospital and I start work at 8am and finish half 7 at night with half hour unpaid break. Including travel time I'm out of the house from 6am til 8pm

It's not unknown. I've been at work for 8am and not left until well past eight at night.

I'm a nanny (currently a sahm) - used to start at 7am and finish at 7pm left the house at 6.30am and got home at 7.30pm, no lunch break.

DP works in security and starts at 6.30am and finishes at 6.30pm he does officially get a lunch break but in reality if there's something going on he eats on the go which is most days

It varies. Some people count all the break times, chat over coffee/water, travel times etc. etc. Some don't.