To not be certain what people mean when they say they work for 12 hours a day.

[topcat2014]

Now, I get that we are busy - but here is my question.

If people say they work 60 hours a week (say), then do they really mean:

At my desk from 07:00 to 19:30 with a half hour for lunch, every day - or

Leave the house at 07:00 and arrive home at 19:00.

I have never worked anywhere where staff are sat at their desks from 7am to 7pm, so not quite sure.

Not everyone has a desk!

I'm a chef with really cushy hours now but my previous 11 years have mainly been 60-100+ hours a week. Yes, honestly.

Restaurant kitchens are often short staffed and people still want to eat if the kitchen is open so someone has to be there. A lot of people assume there are 2 shifts in kitchens- earlies and lates. There can be, but in my experience it's AFD every day for at least 5 and usually 6 days a week.

Or vote for a party that wants to pay paramedics more? Lobby your MP to raise paramedic salaries? Start a new political party that promises to pay emergency service workers a higher salary?

A) not everyone in the ambulance service is a paramedic. Paramedics don't start on £16.5k a year.
B) Who's going to start the political party? If the biggest problem we have is working hours, who within the services will have time to start a political party?

A) okay
B) as I mention, my post was not really specific direct advice, just a response to the notion that we live in a "democracy" where we all have to like things or lump them and have no power over anything.

This thread shows once again how so many have no clue what it is to work in the real world and the real bubble of privilege.

Most people who work long shift work are not loaded, many are minimum wage and they don’t work out of choice but because they have too. For most people believe or not it is a job not a career a job in which they accept shitty hours and work conditions on a shitty wage because it is either that or benefits.

I learnt a really horrid thing to day - a woman was sitting on the pavement with two very small children and someone asked if she was ok. She said fine she was just waiting for the hostel to open. A family hostel. What the fuck does she do all day with the babies?! That is real life. Many on here need to open there eyes and step out of the bubble. Btw I thought opening hours in hostels had long gone.

My team work in the public sector. Shifts start at 1.45pm.. and end at 2.30pm the next day - with no breaks at all. You get to sleep between midnight and 7am on site - but if you are needed during the night you have to get up.

Upside is that you work 37 hours a week (though can be 50 hours one week followed by a 20 hour week the next) .. so get a fair amount off either side.

This thread makes me feel like a slacker

"It's like everything else. Officially and on paper I work 37.5 hours. In reality, it's far, far more, but official statistics wouldn't reflect that."

I wasn't referring to the statistics for 35 hours, but to the law. I'm saddened to learn that this law is frequently broken.

MrsPear - couldn’t agree more! We work because we have to, simple as. We’re not chasing bonuses or promotions, we’re simply paying the bills (and paying proportionately more tax for the privilege of being low earners.)

I work 7am to 7pm or 7pm to 7am with one hour for lunch. Plus the commute to and from work. In the past I have worked 10am to 10pm or 10pm to 10am. Our office is manned 24x7x365. I receive a little extra money for working a rolling shift pattern. As you can see, not everyone works 9 to 5 !

I wasn't referring to the statistics for 35 hours, but to the law. I'm saddened to learn that this law is frequently broken.

It's pretty straightforward. The 48 hour limit under the Working Time Directive doesn't apply when the worker signs an opt-out agreement. That's a standard part of an employment contract. There's no law being broken when you agree in writing to opt out of the limit. It's very standard - I'm not sure why this would be a surprise?

bananafish - We were talking about the law in France. France does not have the opt-out from the WTD except in limited sectors and occupations, not the same situation as the UK.

It's not a surprise to me that the opt-out exists or that employers try to pass it off as a normal part of a contract. I was once in a weak enough position to sign it though never had to use it.

Busting fhe myth of France's 35h work week

How depressing. Maybe you lot should all be learning German then, but you seem to enjoy your long hours bananafish.

When I worked 10-10 I was also paid to be on call when I was on my down time. It was not much fun. Those of us who work shifts work x on, then y off. So the average number of hours over the year works out. I agree with SilentBob that split shifts are hard (nod of agreement)

Of course I don't enjoy them. I'm simply offering a POV regarding the context of why things are how they are. We'd need to overhaul the entire global financial economy to change things. Local laws have limited effect in an interconnected global world. Not saying it's right. Or conceptually impossible. Nothing is impossible. But it would require massive global cultural and economic change.

And as such it strikes me as very simplistic to just say well other countries have solved the problem. When as far as I can tell, the situation is essentially not substantially different in these markets. I'd delighted to be put straight however. I would equally be delighted to have double the headcount and never stay beyond 6!

Recruitment. At my desk at 8am and often there till 7 at least. Not much time for lunch. More emails at home.

When I said I don’t know anyone who works at a desk, I meant it is difficult to define how long is spent at work by time at a desk, when many do not have desk jobs. It was my first thought on reading the OP.

Nobody in my family or circle of friends works at a desk and few have a regular place of work or work pattern that is the same every day. Lots of self employed people, small local businesses and shops, lots of out and about jobs (things like chiropodist, property developer, plumber, window fitter, midwife, fitness instructor, chauffeur, district nurse, outdoor sports people, childminders, play workers, I have friends who are field scientists and who work in conservation or with animals) just difficult to define what is work and what isn’t sometimes. Many work 12 hours, or over, me included, in a 24 hour period regularly. But wouldn’t claim to have a 12 hour day because every day is different and work is done in a variety of locations. Difficult to define.

I absolutely agree it's depressing. I wish that work/life balance was deemed more important. However, I agree with bananafish that there are lots of difficult issues to be resolved to make that happen.

One is bananafish's point about reframing a global service economy. Not an easy task.

Another would be rethinking the resourcing of frontline public service jobs like policing, healthcare, teaching. Ultimately this would involve paying tonnes more tax.

Also, there will always be hungry, energetic people who want to get ahead. Official hours won't hold them back if they're determined to give more.

So far so difficult. But I'd love to hear people's ideas on this.