To expect my child to sleep!

[Allyg1185]

Bit of history first. My 6 year ds 7 in two months has never been a good sleeper. As a new born he would be awake almost all day looking around him. As a toddler he would be up for periods during the night unsettled. As he got older I managed to go from sitting in the room with him till he fell asleep to through in my room to eventually downstairs. Then things settled down during the night and this is where we are today.

For the past year and a half he has a carry on at bedtime. We have the same routine. He gets plenty warning its coming up to bed time. Then we go upstairs brush teeth, try for the toilet, story, kiss and cuddle then I come downstairs. Then the fun begins!

Within minutes hes up at the top of the stairs with various excuses. There is many to hot, to cold, not tired, needs more water, wants jammies off etc etc this can go on for an hour. Up at least twice but can be as much as 4 or 5. Eventually he settles around 9pmish. Sorry I should have said he goes to bed around 8pm.

Once hes asleep hes only up once for a pee and goes straight back to sleep but hes up really early around 6am or just before. I tell him to go back to bed. Hes got a clock in his room and I tell him hes not allowed to come back until 7.00am. However hes through countless times telling me he is bored and not tired.

Just seems like I get one area of his sleep sorted and another problem starts.

Hes very active and is always out playing with his friends after school either bikes or trampolines or climbing trees. Attends swimmimg class one night a week and we are and outdoorsy active family at the weekends.

I should add it doesn't matter how late he goes to bed hes still up really early.

I think I've added as much information as I can.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

I think first port of call would be the Drs to rule out any medical reasons why he's not sleeping.

Then I'd get harsh. Take away toys or ban tv etc he loses a teddy for every time he gets up kinda thing.

Have u spent the night in his room? Is it noisy or cold or do the pipes creak all night etc?

Is he an independent reader? If so just tell him to read until sleepy.

I doubt you can do anything about the early rising, but he should be able to entertain himself quietly for an hour in the morning.

At night, he's old enough to deal with a lot of the excuses without your help - pjs, drink, bored etc. I always had the "you don't have to sleep just stay in your room" rule with DD

Does he read to himself at night? Would story CDs help?

I have tried various punnishments such as banning tablet time the next day or taking a toy away. It makes no difference.

Ive lived in this house my whole life and his room used to be mine. It is a warm room so his radiator is down low as standard. Unfortunatly my neighbours can be noisy banging doors etc but they have been this way since I was a kid and its not new noise.

No hes not an independent reader as yet

He sounds like my son who will be 8 in a few months. A reward chart helped, you know, he got a sticker every night he stayed in his bed, 7 stickers and he got a treat.

You have to be very clear about what behavior earns a sticker though

Ok, so at 6/7 he is able to make choices. He is also able to entertain himself for an hour if he wakes early.

One of mine has always woken up early and it was at around 5/6 that we finally managed to get her to NOT come in to us until 7, and to entertain herself for a bit. We did allow her to put CBeebies on at the weekend.

So, together, set out some things in his room, books, colouring, toys, whatever, and his clock very clear and easy to read.

Set up a reward jar, something that builds quickly, table tennis balls in a large jar is good. Every morning where he manages to play until 7, he gets a ball in the jar. A full jar means a treat, could be a toy, or oculd be a fun activity together like swimming - because Mummy is feeling great after not being woken up early!

bedtime, I would be honest - you come out of bed with lots of excuses - too hot, too cold, want a drink etc because you don't wnat to go to sleep and you want Mummy's attention. Well, fine if you are too hot what do you do? (push duvet off) do you need Mummy to do that ? No. Go through each scenario, and talk him through how he does this himself. At 6/7 he really can sort this.
Then remind him that he isn't to come out of his room to you, unless it is an emergency (exlain what would be an emergency eg been sick, wet the bed) why? because you can't fall asleep standing on the landing talking to Mum!

But the bedtime sounds to me as if he is not yet ready to lie down and go to sleep and hasn't worked out how to lie in bed and relax, so he lies down, doesn't fall asleep, and immediately jumps up again. I used to have a mantra - you can't fall asleep unless your head is on the pillow and your eyes closed.
How about an audio book, or gentle music for him once he is lying down, to help him make that transition?

I have told him all these problems he could deal with himself but still he comes to the top of the stairs to tell me hes taking his jammies off or tell me hes getting a drink. I have thought about story cds but I fear he would keep himself awake at night listening to them over and over again

I think you need to find what it I he really cares about and take that away.

Plus make the days really boring and tell him that we can't go anywhere because mummy is too tired as he's been mucking about all night.

But couple of with a reward so give him stickers or a pasta jar and when he manages w days in a row he gets to pick something

I’d just say ten minutes earlier the next night for every time he gets up.

Have you tried the super nanny rapid return where you don't look at hik.or engage with him you just march straight back to bed every time . It's heavy going for the first couple of days but it works.yiu just havebti remain calm and not reward him with any interaction

So, simple question, what do you do when he comes to the top of the stairs and says - Mummy I'm hot, I'm taking my pjs off?

Because I would ignore. If he then starts - mummy did you hear me etc, I would tell him in advance, that from tonight Mummy is not going to reply. So spell it out, Mummy has heard and is sitting in the lounge and will not say anything back, because he is big enough to do that onhis own.

Then ignore COMPLETELY and that is the key, even if he repeats, sit tight and ignore.

TBH if you are ignoring and he is in and out of bed and then gets in ot bed and goes to sleep, I would count that as success. It is his way of winding down. As long as you don't have to interact with it.

Try the story CDs with rules - it is not reachable from the bed, he has to lie down to listen and onc eit has finished it doesn't go on again.

and wrt story CDs, if he is up and down for an hour, and the CD is 30 minutes and stops him being up and down, then it is win win.

I also wouldn't worry about total hours slept, some kids really do need less, it is more about him learning to go to bed sensibly and not wake everyone in the morning.

I go to the bottom of the stairs and tell him he can do it himself which he does then goes back to bed till the next time.

We have done rewards charts for a period which worked to start with but the novelty soon wore off.

Think I will try again with the reward chart. With a smaller target. Last time it was 14 stickers he had to get

You talking to him is rewarding him for getting up.

I'd try the rapid return you take him back the first yime. Hold home hand and say "it's bedtime sweetie" second tine take his hand take him back to bed and just say "bedtime" then any time after that you ignore hin.do not make eye contact or soeak you take hik.back to bed. Do it every time he gets up. It will be tough but you have to stop rewarding him with conversation or reactions

If he's full of energy all day then he's getting enough sleep. Try 30 minutes later bed time and a story tape. I can't make myself go to sleep if I'm not ready-can you?

He sounds like he's sleeping fine, just not the hours you'd like. Dd1 would have slept longer at that age, but not the other two.

Let him lie down with a book to read for half an hour at 8. Give him something to do for an hour at 6, so he doesn't disturb you until 7am. A nintendo Ds is quite good as a distraction.

If rewards work for a while and then don't then he knows and is just pushing it. So reset the boundary again. (and again and agian and again!)

Another way if you don't like Cds, is a pile of books on his bed, he is allpwed to sit IN BED and look at books, but nothign else, that again is helping the wind down to ready to sleep, which is what he is struggling with.
The rule is, after Mummy has left, you have to stay in bed. You can look at books, but you have to be in bed.

Actually kim being hyperactive/wired etc can be a sign of being overtired.

Not saying that's the case here but tired chikdren often look anything but sleepy.

All very good ideas! My main problems is the carry on at night and waking early. If he went to bed with no carry on and entertained himself in his room for an hour I would be a happy mummy!

I don’t know if early waking can ever be solved! I’ve been going through it for 7 years now! 6am is a good day and no matter what we change, will change it!
I would say be careful about offering electronics for the morning - I caught my daughter sitting playing her iPad at 4:30am one day!
They have their gro-clocks so aren’t allowed downstairs until then. Doesn’t make them roll over and go back to sleep though!
Good luck!

Go for story tapes. There are loads to download-and with a Bluetooth speaker in his room you can keep control!

Do a deal. Half an hour later to bed and a story in exchange for staying in his room. As I said, you can’t go to sleep if you’re not tired.

I would worry tbh that takes would just be another excuse to get up.

It's stopped, it's not working or it's too loud or it's too quiet etc

gileswithachainsaw this is my fear

Ignore ignore ignore, my DS is terrible for this. Constant mummy mummy mummy at bed time for up to 3/4 hours. He knows though that in certain situations I'll come up stairs like he's had an accident, fallen out of bed, or been sick. Otherwise he doesn't get a response, I don't go up, and he has books & a doodle pad to play with. Same thing for the mornings, I won't response unless direly needed until 7am. Colouring, books, toys are there to entertain him. Although to be fair, 6am isn't exactly that early. Can he not go down and get himself breakfast?